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Assuming you have CCW permit and spot an individual at the Mall or wherever... would you call out "Drop the weapon and get down!" or would you just fire? Would you shoot to kill or just wound and stop the attacker? Have you considered this? What are the legal implications? Also will we all recognize the berserk shooter or could it be possibly be an undercover cop shooting a wanted individual?
 

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Way too many variables here for me. But I've been taught that you don't shoot to kill. You shoot to stop a threat. If the bad guy dies as a result...well stuff just happens.
 

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Rabid_Dog said:
Assuming you have CCW permit and spot an individual at the Mall or wherever... would you call out "Drop the weapon and get down!" or would you just fire? Would you shoot to kill or just wound and stop the attacker? Have you considered this? What are the legal implications? Also will we all recognize the berserk shooter or could it be possibly be an undercover cop shooting a wanted individual?
Whatever the person decides to do; they had better have a rational explanation; in other words, they had better be sure they shoot a bad guy and the bad guy(s) only.
 

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I think it would depend on the situation. I could not think of any reason an undercover LEO would be pointing a gun at anyone in a mall or church. I think I would make sure the person or persons he is aiming at had a gun as well. If he is just flailing the gun around , I think I would not hesitate to stop the threat without any warning.
 

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Rabid_Dog said:
Assuming you have CCW permit and spot an individual at the Mall or wherever... would you call out "Drop the weapon and get down!" or would you just fire?
The first thing I'd do is look around to see if he brought his crazy brothers with him.

JimL
 

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Smokewagon said:
Way too many variables here for me. But I've been taught that you don't shoot to kill. You shoot to stop a threat. If the bad guy dies as a result...well stuff just happens.
Correct...too many variables.

muttmutt said:
I think it would depend on the situation. I could not think of any reason an undercover LEO would be pointing a gun at anyone in a mall or church. I think I would make sure the person or persons he is aiming at had a gun as well. If he is just flailing the gun around , I think I would not hesitate to stop the threat without any warning.
And correct again---a LEO would not be firing in a mall or church unless there was a perp that is armed and an immediate threat to him/her or civilians.
 

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First; I would take any available cover. 2nd; Evaluate whether he in my opinion a threat to me and others. 3rd; If he is shooting wildly, or directly at others I would assume, he was a BG. 4th; Tell him to drop the weapon, if no response, or continued firing, drop him in his tracks if possible.

That is my opinion, and I am stuck with it.
 

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Robby said:
First; I would take any available cover. 2nd; Evaluate whether he in my opinion a threat to me and others. 3rd; If he is shooting wildly, or directly at others I would assume, he was a BG. 4th; Tell him to drop the weapon, if no response, or continued firing, drop him in his tracks if possible.

That is my opinion, and I am stuck with it.
No real disagreement here, but I still would look for additional loonies at least AS I started moving around. That's a pet peeve of mine in TV shows. Script writers have people ignoring what's behind them. Too often reality mimics TV in that respect.

JimL
 

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Seek cover, not concealment, cover. Then, shoot. Did or does the other guy, like in the Colorado church shootings or the Nebraska mall shooting, warn their victims? No, so he, they, are fair game.
 

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I may be wrong but aren't malls and churches gun free zones even for CCW? If so you better act only once you are sure of your actions but then act decisively. I don't aim to be the one who escalates a situation to deadly force. If the bad guy has already escalated and others are in danger I will then take action. It's been awhile but I have been under hostile fire before.
 

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As a result of Sundays attacks, I have found out that even locally where I live and go to church. That we have a security department, and there are armed members on staff for services. I believe that all are either former LEO, or current LEO who assist in this important job.

Not sure when it started, but it has been going on for quite some time.
 

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grouchy hippo said:
I may be wrong but aren't malls and churches gun free zones even for CCW? If so you better act only once you are sure of your actions but then act decisively. I don't aim to be the one who escalates a situation to deadly force. If the bad guy has already escalated and others are in danger I will then take action. It's been awhile but I have been under hostile fire before.

Don't know about MI, but Malls and Churches in Texas are only off limits to CHL holders if they are posted.
 

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In most scenarios that I've considered, perhaps because of my training, from a position of hard cover I'd yell a command to stop and drop, followed immediately by a couple of 200 grain .45 caliber bullets. Police and private instructors such as Gun Sight and Thunder Ranch teach to yell a warning or command. It could make a difference in court.

If I found myself out in the open without cover however, I'd most likely shoot without warning.
 

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I have to agree -- so many variables. Taking cover first is a good call. Whatever I did, I would hope my judgement of the situation at hand was at least as good as my aim.
 

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I think churches, public gatherings and malls are off limit to CCW.............but current and former LE can carry. Way too many variables and I dont think most people would want to throw themselves out there and give legal advice in this kind of way. All in all..........if the guy is not posing a threat to me or my life is not in danger then i do not see any reason to be a hero and end up a zero. If the guy had a gun trying to stick me up and my life was in danger and there was no other means to stop the punk then by all means I would let him have my clip. Its always best to give verbal warning though...........even though, not in all situations you can do so. Its a judgement call that can cost you so I would say............make your decisions very careful. Amen!
 

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kashdaddy said:
if the guy is not posing a threat to me or my life is not in danger then i do not see any reason to be a hero and end up a zero.
Even if he's busy making zeros of people across the aisle?

JimL
 

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For you fellow Texans; here is a link to the TX Penal Code 46.035 to determine off-limit places: http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/46.035.00.html

Now, I have to say that I have heard some conflicting info. For example, in the CHL class I heard that hospitals were off limits only if posted. Now the Code says that hospitals are off limits, period, unless the licensee has prior approval (who is going to give us that?) Obviously I will go with the written code, but just goes to show that the laws are a little convoluted and made worse by the fact that each state can vary widely.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Alright maybe I'll be a bit more specific. You have either your kids, your brothers kids or both shopping with you, you've taken cover (it's not great but your safe for now), the kids are hiding in slightly better cover than you right behind you. The maniac has his attention elsewhere but seems to be moving toward your cover and firing upon others indiscriminately. You figure he'll see you eventually if he keeps walking in the same direction. Any thoughts?
 

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Well, I was reading the statues and such for KY again.

Our officially is a CCDW, rather than the CCW I been using earlier.

Concealed Carry of Deadly Weapons

So I read on!!

Deadly Weapons
The term includes items such as bombs, handguns and other firearms, knives (other than ordinary pocket knives and hunting knives), police batons, clubs, blackjacks, slapjacks, nunchaku karate sticks, shurikens or death stars, and artificial knuckles.

So I get the training on a hand gun, and can carry Bombs, :???: (Hand grenades come to mind), along with a real variety of other stuff. I would need a large back pack to carry it all. :D

Actually the Bombs, and martial arts nunchaku, shurikens, death stars and brass knuckles kind of bother me in that law. :-\
 

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Robby said:
So I read on!!

Deadly Weapons
The term includes items such as bombs, handguns and other firearms, knives (other than \
Does the concealed carry wording specify all the deadly weapons or are you just interpreting the phrase? I'll bet a 150mm howitzer is classified as a deadly weapon too! But I'd also bet at least $2 they won't allow you to carry it concealed!! :)

JimL
 
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