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BUT no weapon is presented at that point.

I have been wrestling with a similar question. There was a carjacking in the village near me last week, in fact the little village I grew up in. It's grown from 1700 people to over 35,000 as I have grown old and apparently changed in other ways.

A lady in her 60's was leaving a food store and two guys stated that they had a gun and were going to take her car. They punched her out, probably unnecessarily, and took her car which was found abandoned 5 miles south.

My question is ...if approached and threatened verbally with the person claiming they have a firearm yet not producing one, would you respond with deadly force? Or take the chance to wait and be late on the draw?
 

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Guess this would depend on your/my level of fear for my safety at that very moment in time. After that it's a matter of the price you place on a human life. The vehicle can be recovered/replaced, but a life taken (however worthless it maybe) is still a life that can't be recovered.

Not to mention that a life taken and non recoverable can still haunt you through the legal system for years and ruin you financially. This is not taking into the account of the mental issues of living through having taken a life.

Guess what I am saying is there is no right answer as far as speculation goes.
 

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Present mine at low ready...
and be the first to call the police
 

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Elderley Lady you say ? Well take the *damn* Car and goodbye ! Able bodied younger fellow,It is a hard call a Police Officer if stated to him I have a gun and does not display one immediatley draws his weapon to protect his life ! I would agree that the same applys to a citizen to protect his life and property with the statement of imminent danger . If escalates into a shooting you will be before a grand jury and hopefully prevail .
 

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Produce my weapon, point at the individual, and tell him "I'm your huckleberry." :rofl:
 

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If I were by myself, I would let them have the car/truck, but draw my weapon in defense of the implied threat while seeking cover. I would fire only if an actual weapon/gun were drawn by the perps.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Elderley Lady you say ? Well take the *damn* Car and goodbye ! Able bodied younger fellow,It is a hard call a Police Officer if stated to him I have a gun and does not display one immediatley draws his weapon to protect his life ! I would agree that the same applys to a citizen to protect his life and property with the statement of imminent danger . If escalates into a shooting you will be before a grand jury and hopefully prevail .
I re-read the article and it turns out she is 58 years old...not so elderly...by my standards :rolleyes:

Here's a news report from when it happened...no followup to indicate that the Keystone cops found anybody suspected of the crime (despite them being in a retail store no doubt with video)

https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2018/10/18/woman-carjacked-by-two-men-at-algonquin-jewel-osco/
 

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Wow, 58 is YOUTH. :rofl:
 
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Before it ever happens, try these three things:

1). Elect the right state prosecutor in your jurisdiction.
2). Elect judges that understand individual rights.
3). Determine if your state applies a subjective test or an objective test when faced with self-defense issues. Was it reasonable for the "old lady" to respond with a gun, given what she knew, understood, and felt at the time, or what would the hypothetical "reasonable person" be expected to do in such a situation. Many jurisdictions use the subjective test. As a guy who doesn't fight with his hands, I'd be intimidated by anyone who threatened me with a gun, knowing I couldn't likely defend myself, and feel an immediate threat for my life. For at least couple of decades here in Wichita, we've had a D.A. who respects an individual's rights to defend himself. I can't think of any instance here in the last 20 years where someone who claimed self defense was even arrested, let alone prosecuted. ALWAYS elect a prosecutor who will not go after honest citizens who are victims.
 

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Because I'm old and plagued with breathing problems and arthritis that will prevent me from fighting or running and I feel that I'm threatened with fear of bodily harm I will protect myself. I will not screw around and say I have a firearm, wave it around or fire a warning shot.
 

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If I felt confident that they would take the car and go, I would definitely let them. If I felt threatened in the slightest I would draw my weapon and if they didn't immediately scatter I would use in in a second.
 

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A few months back, my wife and I decided to head into town for dinner. We live at the end of a county road, three miles off the concrete, somewhat remote but not completely isolated. As we crossed the bridge at the end of our property a beat up old pickup pulled up partially blocking our exit. Two guys got out and started walking towards our truck. Concerned, I reached under the dash for my S&W Model 645 and placed it in my lap just as the first guy approached my vehicle and put his hand on the roof. Much too close and no reason for it. Asked what they wanted and given lame excuses about just wanting to “look around” , I brought the .45 up so he could see it there in my lap. I didn’t brandish it, but I was clearly ready. He then decided he didn’t want to look around after all and said “I best be going”. I agreed and they made a hasty retreat.
Were they up to no good, seemed like, so being prepared and a step ahead can save your life. Oh and just to be on record, I called the Sheriff and reported the encounter, all of it.
 

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Ask yourself two questions:
  1. Are you afraid for your life?
  2. Are you a reasonable man (or woman)?
 
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Good question, and one that gives pause for thought. Beyond the forum-popular and totally rational, 'Rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6,' there is the reality of the aftermath.

One person's word (yours) against that of someone else. Go beyond that to a he said/they said, and your righteous position as an offended party becomes a less powerful in a court of law. Read through some of the horror stories of defensive gun use in which someone protected themselves just by brandishing, You can find people who wound up fighting for their freedom and good name, even though they were (by their own account, of course) completely in the right.

The two guys in an old pickup truck who block someone and approach their truck, under other circumstances, become two guys who complain to the police they just tried to ask directions because they were lost, and were threatened with a gun.

The two guys who corner someone in the parking lot only to wind up face to face with a gun at low ready become, with no other witnesses, two customers who were just walking through the parking lot when some guy got scared and waved a gun at them.

You say you were scared? Okay, what gun did they show (remember, THEY have a description of YOUR gun, YOU only have your word they threatened you).
 

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Kansas has been tweaking the cc laws over the last several years. A firearm can be drawn and or used if you feel your life is endanger or a life endangering threat has been made. I'll take my chances here in Kansas..:)
 

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I had an incident back in the nineties at a truck stop in Slidell La. I had fueled the truck and gone in to shower and have a meal so I could get some sleep before unloading in the morning. I was walking back to the truck when a car pulled up beside me and two dudes got out and told me they wanted my wallet. One pulled his coat back and showed he was carrying some type of revolver. I already had my hand on my Colt Commander when the car pulled up so I just pulled it from my jacket and leveled it at his chest. He decided it was not worth the effort and asked me to let them go. Since I was in a dark parking lot with big rigs all around me I let them go. I reported it to the truck stop manager who called the police. Officers asked me for a description of the men and vehicle and I gave it to them along with the tag number. They never asked me about me carrying a gun and I didn't bring it up.
 

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To answer the OP's question, In my incident I was in a very rough area so I was on my game. I saw the car that approached me drive around several big rigs to keep out of sight of the truck stop building and fuel islands. That particular truck stop is known for drugs, prostitution and assaults but I had no choice as it was a company fuel stop and they had a dispatch office there. I always carried that Colt back then either in my pack or IWB under a coat and since it was winter I had it in my waistband. I would not change the way I handled the situation and most certainly would have shot the guy if he had gone for his gun. I figured I would just have to deal with the consequences as they came but at least I would be there to deal with it.
 

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My question is ...if approached and threatened verbally with the person claiming they have a firearm yet not producing one, would you respond with deadly force? Or take the chance to wait and be late on the draw?
All speculation disclaimers in place, I would simultaneously hit the horn and the gas as hard as possible.

Are you a reasonable man (or woman)?
I have known several very, very unreasonable people in my life. None of them could self identify. That raises the possibility that I am an unreasonable person, and am similarly afflicted with an inability to self identify as such. So I'm a bit uncomfortable with this approach to the issue. :rolleyes:
 
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