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Winchester White Box JHP. Watered Down? [HR][/HR] I took the ole Ruger P95 9mm out for a shoot this morning & was kinda shocked & dissappointed. Not with the gun, but with the ammo. I finally found a box of WWB 147 gr. JHP @ the local Wal Mart. I fired a Box of WWB 147gr FMJ's first (with good results) and then followed up with the JHPs. The Hollow points sounded weak and hit very low of POA. So are the Winchester White Box JHP rounds watered down or what's going on here?
 

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Winchester White Box JHP. Watered Down? [HR][/HR] I took the ole Ruger P95 9mm out for a shoot this morning & was kinda shocked & dissappointed. Not with the gun, but with the ammo. I finally found a box of WWB 147 gr. JHP @ the local Wal Mart. I fired a Box of WWB 147gr FMJ's first (with good results) and then followed up with the JHPs. The Hollow points sounded weak and hit very low of POA. So are the Winchester White Box JHP rounds watered down or what's going on here?
what does Winchester ballistics show for the two rounds on thier website?
do you have a chrony to check them?
Honestly as one is a fmj and one is a JHP, both are the same weight I would think the actual loading would be identical.
although factories do not necessarily use the same powder from lot to lot and of course even the same powder will differ lot to lot.
I can tell you a lot more about MY factory loading than Winchesters though!-LOL
 

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Could have been a bad batch. I've been saying for a long time how I never had a problem with WWB and I just got a VP box with one that had a crunched up casing.
 

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Yeah, I called Winchester with the lot # of the JHP rounds. I mean they fired and cycled the gun well.
 

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Yeah, I called Winchester with the lot # of the JHP rounds. I mean they fired and cycled the gun well.
With WWB JHP, that's all i tend to ask for is firing and cycling. I'm not looking for high accuracy performance with them, they're not investing that much into their practice rounds IMO. I would rather run Federal's or Remington UMC's personally, but that's just my preference. WWB FMJ's outperform the JHP's any day of the week in my pistols.
 

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According to this site: 9mm Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101

The velocity of both the 147 gr JHP, and the 147 gr. FMJ, are the same 990 fps.

There have been other threads here, and in other forums, about low velocities in various boxes of Winchester's USA ammunition. My own supply has been uniform sounding, feeling, and as to POA/POI.
 

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According to this site: 9mm Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101
The velocity of both the 147 gr JHP, and the 147 gr. FMJ, are the same 990 fps.
There have been other threads here, and in other forums, about low velocities in various boxes of Winchester's USA ammunition. My own supply has been uniform sounding, feeling, and as to POA/POI.
And so now we know about the ballistics!
I have never used the white Box Winny JHP and know little about the projectile as to its a older design or a new design that would work as self defense load at that speed, and of course what weapon(test barrel) was that speed from?
I lean to using the premium self defense ammo personally but to each his own.
 

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I've carried them in my Kahr CM9 and they seem to perform okay. They tend to hit a bit high from my Kahr as compared to lighter rounds. I've since switched to Fiocchi 115 grain JHP's, but mostly because the lighter, faster rounds hit pretty much where my poa is. Generally the faster rounds are going to hit a bit lower because they're not in the barrel as long, and the whole pistol is moving before the round exits the barrel. You can see it real well in this high speed video - note the rearward slide of the entire pistol before the projectile leaves the barrel. The muzzle is also moving up, although that's harder to see.

 

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I believe that WWB is fine for practice, wouldn't carry it though. The only way to get prices down on WWB (to a reasonable level) is buy cutting/reducing something. I would use WWB for practice, but if I were to use a Winchester loading for carry/defense, I would use Silvertips.
 

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I believe that WWB is fine for practice, wouldn't carry it though. The only way to get prices down on WWB (to a reasonable level) is buy cutting/reducing something. I would use WWB for practice, but if I were to use a Winchester loading for carry/defense, I would use Silvertips.
The 147 gr. hollow points are in a white box, but they're in their Personal Protection line and are loaded to higher pressure than the target loads. It's not a real high tech projectile, but it's got a decent size hole in the end, with six serrations. I'm of the opinion that any decent hollow point that's traveling fast enough to expand will get the job done, provided it doesn't plug up passing through clothing. Fast enough is generally 7-800 fps, and these have a muzzle velocity of 990 fps and with 9mm's it's usually measured from a 4" barrel. It's usually overstated too, and I would think somewhere in the 900-925 fps range from a short barreled 9mm is probably closer to the truth. Still fast enough to expand and penetrate effectively. However, this projectile seems to have some issues with the hollow point plugging and basically turning into a fancy fmj in the four-layer denim test, so it's probably better for summer carry (when people wear less clothing) than in the colder months. Here are some interesting videos.


And here's the retest -

These two videos, and the following video prompted me to switch to Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics 115 gr jhp's for everyday carry. Also not a high tech projectile, but they seem to perform adequately through denim. And the lighter round is traveling a lot faster - these guys chronoed them at around 1250 fps from a Taurus PT92. I'd guess around 1125-1150 fps from a 3" barrel - but that's just a guess. Are they the best? Nope. But they don't cost like the best either. I wouldn't want to get shot with one.

 

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Well I have touted the fiocchi lineup for some time and personal testing for function and expansion/pentration have been fairly good out of my weapons, of course the Extrema line of Fiocchi uses the Hornady XTP projectile loaded to the same ballistics as the hornady XTP/ FTX and is thier top line self defense loading at about half the price of other manufactures.
I have used/tried them in 38 spl, 380, 9MM, 45 acp!
Because i have so many short barreld 9 MM ( 3 to 4 inch) I finally decided to go with the Fiocchi extrema mono block ammo, which is a all copper projectile of 92 grains moving at 1300 FPS out of a 4 inch barrled weapon, with the all copper modern design you get both great expansion, good penetration and it has a plug in the end of the hollow point to resist clogging.
it functions perfetcly in all my 9MM and is a standard loading with very low recoil and muzzle flash, making followup shots easy and fast. the good thing is a box of 50 runs about $26.00.
 

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Well I have touted the fiocchi lineup for some time and personal testing for function and expansion/pentration have been fairly good out of my weapons, of course the Extrema line of Fiocchi uses the Hornady XTP projectile loaded to the same ballistics as the hornady XTP/ FTX and is thier top line self defense loading at about half the price of other manufactures.
I have used/tried them in 38 spl, 380, 9MM, 45 acp!
Because i have so many short barreld 9 MM ( 3 to 4 inch) I finally decided to go with the Fiocchi extrema mono block ammo, which is a all copper projectile of 92 grains moving at 1300 FPS out of a 4 inch barrled weapon, with the all copper modern design you get both great expansion, good penetration and it has a plug in the end of the hollow point to resist clogging.
it functions perfetcly in all my 9MM and is a standard loading with very low recoil and muzzle flash, making followup shots easy and fast. the good thing is a box of 50 runs about $26.00.
$26 is a pretty good price for top tier defense rounds - but it's still twice as much as I pay for the regular old shooting dynamics 115 gr. jhp's. That 92 grain round is a funky lookin' little dude when it expands. I wish these guys had used some denim, but I can't see this projectile having any problems with the tip plugging since it's 'pre-plugged' for your SD convenience. :D


Shooting into open water doesn't really tell you much - unless there's fish swimming around in it. But it's interesting none the less.


Just looking at the videos they don't seem to perform much better than the regular old shooting dynamics, and the shooting dynamics stuff might even expand a bit better. There is that issue of tip plugging though. And while the shooting dynamics seems to do pretty well through clothing, you know that 92 grainer ain't gonna plug up. I'll probably stick with the cheap stuff, though.
 

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yea, i ain't much on shooting milk jugs that are weraing blue jeans but my neighbor is all into this stuff.
so we were out shooting one day and he had like a 100 milk jugs and a bunch of old denim blue leans.
so i say what the hell lets see what they will do.
I was shooting them out of the Beretta PX4 SC, 3 inch barrel and from about 4-5 yards or so!
i got that same nasty laid back expansion and protruding tip through 3 layers of denim and it penetrated 3 milk jugs and came to rest in the fourth.
I would like to get a hold of this projectile in a 124 grain that i could load my 5 inch barreled 38 Super with.
 

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yea, i ain't much on shooting milk jugs that are weraing blue jeans but my neighbor is all into this stuff.
so we were out shooting one day and he had like a 100 milk jugs and a bunch of old denim blue leans.
so i say what the hell lets see what they will do.
I was shooting them out of the Beretta PX4 SC, 3 inch barrel and from about 4-5 yards or so!
i got that same nasty laid back expansion and protruding tip through 3 layers of denim and it penetrated 3 milk jugs and came to rest in the fourth.
I would like to get a hold of this projectile in a 124 grain that i could load my 5 inch barreled 38 Super with.
A 124 grainer made out of solid copper would be a pretty darn long round. If something like that yawed in addition to it's expansion I don't doubt it would spell trouble for whatever it hit.
 

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A 124 grainer made out of solid copper would be a pretty darn long round. If something like that yawed in addition to it's expansion I don't doubt it would spell trouble for whatever it hit.
Yep,I imagine so!
I got some.355 -80 grain COP (all copper hollow points) that I use in my 380's and they aren't a lot longer thna the 90-100 grainers in Gold dot etc, but i got some .355 115 grainers and they are a bunch longer than the 115 grain gold dot, golden sabres for sure.
I thunk I might knock a projectile out of the 92 grainers and see how long that light weight projectile is.
And as how we have Morphed off the subject--- let me say that i don't think that Winchester white box comes in a all copper projectile!-LOL
 
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