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Discussion Starter #1
About two months ago, I purchased two pairs of Williams Adjustable Firesights #70969 from Brownell's. I installed a set on both my PT 145 MIL PRO (stainless) and my PT 640 PRO (blued).

After I installed them, I took both pistols to the range (outdoor, covered firing points) to sight them in. I found that with the front Williams Firesight was so high that I had to adjust the rear sight very high. Once sighted in, the adjustable Williams Firesights were a pleasure to use as they were very bright and very visible.

Other shooters at the range admired the Firesights, and also commented on their excellent visibility. I let several other shooters try both the PT640 and the PT145 with the Firesights, and the response was unanimously positive, with some of the other shooters saying that they also wanted to purchase a set.

On several subsequent range trips, on dank cloudy days and bright sunny days, the sights functioned well and maintained their excellent visibility.

As I continued to use the Williams Firesights, I became more aware of a shortcoming in their design, explicitly in the front Firesight. When carried in a case, the PT's had no problems, but when holstered in my Fobus, Remora, or Taurus 24/7 holster, the height of the front Firesight caused it to scratch and drag in the holsters, it was almost impossible to insert the PT's into the Taurus 24/7 holster, as the front sight would catch in the sight channel. Since the rear sight had to be elevated so high in order to line it up with the front sight, it would sometimes catch or snag on my shirt or on the holster when worn. Also sitting up so high, it appeared that the rear sight could be potentially damaged.

Firesight3.jpg


Firesight4.jpg

I had previously seen the HiViz front fiber optic sight ("Lightpipe"), which is a direct competitor to the Williams Firesights. When in another forum here on TA a PT 145 MilPro owner displayed the difference in height between the Williams and HiViz front sights, I decided that I would have to try them. I found that the green HiViz front sight for the 24/7 and MilPro dovetail series was in stock at Midway (the red sight was out of stock), and I had a "$10 off $50" Midway coupon, I decided to purchase two of the #TR2009 Handgun Sights with the green lightpipe. As is typical for Midway, they were delivered very promptly.


Firesight7-Height.jpg

HiViz recommends gunsmith installation for the Taurus sights, but I have installed a lot of sights in my day, so I decided to do it myself. Removing the front Williams Firesight with a .05" Allen wrench was easy, but the HiViz is a friction fit. Unlike the Williams front sight, it took a few minutes with a flat file on the bottom of the HiViz sight base to get it to somewhat fit, and a few light taps with a plastic hammer and plastic push rod (being extremely careful to ONLY push on the base - NOT the lightpipe) to force it tightly in place.

While UPS only delivered the Midway package tonight at dinnertime, I have not yet had the opportunity to try the HiViz sights at the range, but I can tell you that in the house, the front HiViz sight is very bright, possibly only slightly less than the Firesight, but still very bright. With the adjustable Williams Firesight rear sight (red fiber optic), and the green HiViz front sight, the sight picture is excellent. I will still have to go to the range to sight in both pistols now that the sight geometry has changed, and the new front HiViz is only half the height of the front Firesight. With nothing concrete to go by, I cranked down the adjustable rear sight about half way, as it will obviously not need to be as high with the lower front sight. I also found that with the lower HiViz front sights, both pistols now fit all three holsters perfectly.

Weather permitting, I plan on going to the range this weekend and sight in these puppies.

Firesight8-InstalledHeight.jpg
 

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Looks like a nice solution!

Have you got a micrometer you could measure the original front sight from top of barrel to top of sight and do the same for the other two Reason I ask is I hate the POI with the Straight Eight and am looking to just install a new lower front site.
 

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We have the WFS on my wife's PT111 and will have to keep an eye on this issue. It is her carry gun. I was thrilled about the sight picture presented by the WFS as they are extremely easy to pick up.
 

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On my PT with the same setup I cranked the rear William's sight all the way down...indexes perfectly with 185gr XTP's at 15 yards, 2 inches high with 200gr SWC's, and about 6 inches high with 230gr hardball ammo, all at 15 yards. In an attempt to zero the 230gr's a little better, I took apart the William's rear sight and machined down the bottom of the sight to get it to set lower on the slide. Using the calculations that dbeardslee uses, I think the 200gr bullets will be zeroed, need to go a little more to get the 230gr zeroed. Unfortunately, the only way I can do that is to mill the slide, which I'm not sure I want to do. I milled the sight as much as I can, the windage adjustment screw prevents me from taking off any more material....

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The sight combo on my PT145 MilPro SS:

PT145-Firesight-HiViz1.jpg

PT145-Firesight-HiViz2-Top.jpg

Williams red adjustable Firesight in the rear, HiViz Lightube green sight in the front.

Now fits my Fobus SP11B, DeSantis Tuck This II, and Taurus (ITC) 24/7 holster perfectly with the lower HiViz front sight; this also allowed me to dramatically lower the rear sight as well.
 

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Let us know how your range time pans out.
 

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I have the Williams original and they are spot on. Stop light in back Go in front.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
UPDATE 3/13/12 on HiViz front sight

I finally had some range time today to try out my hybrid combo of Williams rear adjustable Firesights and the front HiViz sight.

On the PT145MilPro, the combination worked great with others at the range commenting on the excellent visibility of the sights.

Much the same happened with the PT 640 Pro, EXCEPT I could not seem to get the windage correct to stay on target.
I found that the front HiViz sight was loose and drifting to the right while firing 165gr and 180gr .40 S&W factory loads!
The sight appeared tight before I went to the range, as it took a LOT of fitting and tapping (light hammering) with a plastic hammer during the install to get it centered in the dovetail, but this afternoon it was totally loose!

After a thorough post-firing cleaning, I will degrease the dovetail and sight base and try a little Loctite (Blue) to see if that holds it securely.
 

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So it zeroed ok with the HiViz front sight? What distance were you shooting at? Bullet weight? I've been shooting my PT145 with this combo for a couple of months now, I agree with you, the visibility is excellent.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So it zeroed ok with the HiViz front sight? What distance were you shooting at? Bullet weight? I've been shooting my PT145 with this combo for a couple of months now, I agree with you, the visibility is excellent.

Mike
I was firing the PT145 MilPro using Freedom Munitions "REMAN" (reloaded) 230gr FMJ at 7 yds, 15 yds, and 25 yds. When I was getting consistent tight groups, many in one ragged hole in the 10 ring, I stopped fiddling with the adjustable sight.

The PT640Pro with the loose HiViz front sight was shooting the Federal Valuepack 180gr FN-FMJ, at the same ranges as the PT145.

I posted a range report of the Freedom Munitions reloads here at:
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/r...unitions-45-reloads-sr1911-pt145-mil-pro.html
See post #1
 

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So it was shooting to point of aim with the 230's? My PT was shooting pretty high (about 3 to 4 inches) at 15 yards with 230gr hardballs, with nice tight groups. Those fiber optic sights really helps me and my old eyes....
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So it was shooting to point of aim with the 230's? My PT was shooting pretty high (about 3 to 4 inches) at 15 yards with 230gr hardballs, with nice tight groups. Those fiber optic sights really helps me and my old eyes....
I adjusted the sights to be in the 10 ring at the 10 o'clock position. I did not want to try to adjust them any further. Being within an inch with a .45 should be adequate.

I am using the #70969 Williams rear adjustable Firesight (red tube) with a green HiViz front sight. The Williams front Firesight was just too high, and while very visible, and worked well, there were other issues with its height. That is why I switched to the HiViz front sight.
 

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Just ordered the one you listed for the front. Was there much filing to install? I've done some on other guns so I'm not worried just wondering. No set screws on the HiViz sight?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just ordered the one you listed for the front. Was there much filing to install? I've done some on other guns so I'm not worried just wondering. No set screws on the HiViz sight?
The HiViz fronts are held in by friction, not with a set screw. My PT145 MilPro only took a little touch up filing for a solid, tight fit.

The PT640 needed a little more filing on the bottom, but then shifted during firing. I removed the sight, cleaned the bottom of the sight and dovetail with acetone (cheap 100% acetone nail polish remover from the dollar store), and used some LocTite BLUE to secure it in place, being careful to center it as well as possible. The Williams adjustable rear had to have a few windage clicks, but it is spot on target now.
 

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Does the hiViz front sight have enough material lateral to the tube where you could drill and tap a set screw hole on one or both sides to allow for its adjustment? I presume the sight base is polymer, not metal, but even so you wouldn't have to torque two set screws much to hold the sight in place yet retain adjustability. I would hate to lose the advantage of the dovetail by fixing with locTite. JMO

Also, if you can get the hiViz front sight in red to match the red rear Firesights would that be better?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
HiViz comes in red or green.

I only used the blue LocTite on my PT640 because I filed too much of the base, which made it loose. On my PT145 MilPro it is solid in the dovetail, and has not budged through hundreds of rounds. On both sides of the base, outboard of the fiber rod, there is plenty of material to drill and tap for a small set screw.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
TexDep, do you like the contrast of the red and green?

On my PT145 MilPro I have the Williams adjustable rear sight with the red optic insert, and the HiViz front in green. With any ambient light, they are sharp and clear, and quick to pickup.
 

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I'm fairly certain I will switch to TexDep's combo of adjustable Williams rear sights and HiViz front sights (haven't determined the color combo yet) for my Mil Pro 140. Before I invest however, has anyone made changes to the fully adjustable sight scenario and still been unable to hit POA consistently? I ask only because after 100 rds with the OEM Heine sights, realizing the "low and left" syndrome, and compensating, I could get maybe 7 or 8 in a decent group and then the oddball "where'd that come from" 2 or 3. This was at 21'. Even had the range manager shoot a mag and he had the same issue. Do these short barrel guns just throw one out randomly or is it operator error? BTW, it seemed like the stray was after I'd just nailed 4 in a row. Same sight picture.

I realize this is a SD firearm, point and shoot, and feel certain it would function fine in my hands in that regard. However I hope that situation never arises so in the meantime it would be fun to hit the 3" circle given the price of ammo and range time. Love the gun, just not happy with the, "dead reckoning aiming/where'd that go" type of thing. Apologize for the length of this.
 
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