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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello All. Given the vast diversity of brands and experience here, I'm sure all you experts can help to clarify something for me. ;)

Earlier today I had an interesting conversation about various brands of 22LR Semi Auto pistols. It has been my experience that with ANY and ALL semi auto weapons, at some point there will be various jams, stove pipes, failures to feed, extract, etc., especially with 22LR. It was a conversation, not a debate, but it got me to thinking that maybe I missed something. Every semi auto I've ever had, and everybody I know with a semi auto, has had the various problems, regardless of brand. I always just accepted that as inherent to the nature of the mechanical device, and did not necessarily use that as a measure of the overall product 'reliability'. Granted, if 3 shots from the first mag jam, that might be a problem, but when you're 50-100 rounds fired and you tap the slide forward into battery, that just tells me its time to clean it. Did I sleep through that part of class?? Am I cutting the pistol too much slack?? Or, is that like judging a car's performance based on whether or not its ever had a flat tire?? Stuff happens right?? :confused:

So now, my question to you all is, "How many jams are OK??" Thanks Much, in advance. I look forward to your input.:)
 

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The two .22lr semi autos I have are relatively jam free. I have a S&W 2214 that I can never remember having a jam in or any other problem no matter what ammo I used. My Browning Buckmark has only had a problem with Winchester Wildcats, feeding and ejecting problems constantly. I mainly feed it Federal Bulk ammo. The last time I went to the range it had over 300 rounds fired and only stove piped maybe 2 times.

To me 1 jam in 50 rounds would be acceptable.
 

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I have a Winchester 190 that I've owned for 37 years and I finally broke it down and scrubbed it even though it still shot great and never jammed, my P22 is a different story but i use it as a training pistol and not concerned about jamming.
 

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The only time i experience jamming is when i change brands of .22 LR, some like one brand better than others. My PT-22 Poly likes Remington Golden Bullets & Thunderbolts while my Marlin 795 (i know it's a rifle but still semi-auto) tends to like Federal and Winchester bulk ammo. Along with the cleaning issues that affect most jams, there's also the inherit problem of .22's not being sealed cases. Sometimes, the powder charge between rounds can be different by just enough to cause poor cycling and stove pipes on an inconsistent basis. IMO, if i'm paying $20 or less for 500+ rounds of ammo, i'm not going to get too upset about a few rounds that don't cycle well here and there.
 

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The Walther P22 can be picky about ammo especially if it's not copper jacketed.
 

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It would only seem to be a problem if it is a bug or defensive weapon. Then you might need to find a different ammo that will cycle at least a couple hundred without problems. My wife has a Bersa 22 that usually shoots Remington golden well enough. But since she keeps it on her bedside table, I keep it stoked with cci stingers which are awesome. It doesn't like winchester bulk though so they get used in the revolver.
 

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High Standards are probably the most finicky .22 autos when it comes to ammo sensitivity and feeding issues. As a glutton for punishment, I own two. With the right ammo and a properly adjusted magazine they work very well, but I still will get some form of malfunction occasionally.

I'd say about one in 50 is O.K. I can not shoot the extremely cheap stuff. High Standards are tuned for standard velocity ammo and work best with match ammo that can cost as much or more than 9mm. I stick with CCI Standard Velocity which they recommend. It's not as expensive as the match stuff, but still runs $7 / 100 or so when I take shipping into account.
 

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I would venture to say 1 in 50 wouldnt be a bad trade off with the .22's. Now when S&W releases their M&P 15-22, I jumped on it. And maybe because it was a new weapon system or maybe it was just defective with 3 trips back to the factory and several different magazines it would still jam 1in5 rounds. To me it wasnt worth it and I sold thay weapon with about 2000 rounds through it. It litterally jammed 1 in 5. Stove pipes and double feed were the two most frequent issues. I have to say my much cheaper Mossberg Plinkster has around 2500 rounds through it ALL federal bulk and not one malfunction on the gun part, we have had 2 or 3 rounds not fire but that was ammo related. I have heard that Smith has reworked some of the internal organs of the 15-22 and they are more reliable now so we may give another one a try in the future as the .22 is the favorite aroind my house.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have a Winchester 190 that I've owned for 37 years and I finally broke it down and scrubbed it even though it still shot great and never jammed, my P22 is a different story but i use it as a training pistol and not concerned about jamming.
I'm not familiar with the Winchester 190, but as a rifle, does that even compare?? What did you consider so bad about the P22??
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Does anybody think the gun design makes a difference?? By that I mean the 'blow back' design like a Buckmark or Ruger MK vs a P22/SR22.
 

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If the gun is broken in and clean I should be able to put a "minimum" of 300 rounds through it before the slide slows down enough to cause problems.

All my centerfire pistols will go way beyond this point before exhibiting signs of fouling.

The vast majority of problems (over 95%) with semiautos can be traced to bad magazines.

The rest is usually "pilot error" with a tiny percentage due to actual gun mechanical malfunctions.
 

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The Walther P22 can be picky about ammo especially if it's not copper jacketed.
.22LR rounds are not copper jacketed, they're copper washed. Big difference.
 

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My 22/45 has had close to 3000 rds thru it and have only had 7 fail to fire. Loaded the ammo back in and it fired so not the guns fault. More than 80% of that is Federal bulk ammo, with various match ammo for the rest. My Savage 64 has had zero problems with bulk ammo or match. 1500 rds thru it. Ruger 10/22, 1000= rds, 0 failures. Have never owned a Walther or High Standard but looking at a Ruger SR22. Once I find ammo my guns like, that is all I ever buy
 

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Yeah, most of the failures i have with Federal are due to the concrete they call primers. Anything that doesn't shoot by the second try gets tossed in Grandpa's Remington Scoremaster. That bolt makes everything shoot.
 

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It has been my experience that with ANY and ALL semi auto weapons, at some point there will be various jams, stove pipes, failures to feed, extract, etc., especially with 22LR.... when you're 50-100 rounds fired and you tap the slide forward into battery, that just tells me its time to clean it.
The only time i experience jamming is when i change brands of .22 LR, some like one brand better than others. My PT-22 Poly likes Remington Golden Bullets & Thunderbolts while my Marlin 795 (i know it's a rifle but still semi-auto) tends to like Federal and Winchester bulk ammo. Along with the cleaning issues that affect most jams, there's also the inherit problem of .22's not being sealed cases. Sometimes, the powder charge between rounds can be different by just enough to cause poor cycling and stove pipes on an inconsistent basis.
I'm of the opinion that poor maintenance accounts for more jams than bad ammo, assuming one has first done some hands-on research into what brand(s) shoot best in a particular gun. And many owners are quick to place blame on the tool and not the user. Some .22 are more forgiving than others, and can go for thousands of rounds without cleaning, but guns are not hard to clean, so why ask for trouble? I'm currently down to two semiauto pistols, a P22 and a Chiappa 1911-22. The P22 runs almost flawlessly on Remington Golden Bullets, likewise the Chiappa with MiniMags. Note I said almost flawlessly. I do get an occasional stovepipe with both and an occasional fail to fire with the RGBs, but I'm convinced it's the ammo causing the FTFs. It doesn't happen often enough for me to want to change to a more expensive brand. Even so, If I had the same frequency of stovepipes with one of my centerfire pistols I'd be looking hard for an answer as to why.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
I'm of the opinion that poor maintenance accounts for more jams than bad ammo, assuming one has first done some hands-on research into what brand(s) shoot best in a particular gun. And many owners are quick to place blame on the tool and not the user. Some .22 are more forgiving than others, and can go for thousands of rounds without cleaning, but guns are not hard to clean, so why ask for trouble? I'm currently down to two semiauto pistols, a P22 and a Chiappa 1911-22. The P22 runs almost flawlessly on Remington Golden Bullets, likewise the Chiappa with MiniMags. Note I said almost flawlessly. I do get an occasional stovepipe with both and an occasional fail to fire with the RGBs, but I'm convinced it's the ammo causing the FTFs. It doesn't happen often enough for me to want to change to a more expensive brand. Even so, If I had the same frequency of stovepipes with one of my centerfire pistols I'd be looking hard for an answer as to why.
THANK YOU ALL for the continuing feedback. As I read through these responses, I'm thinking maybe my question has more to do with 'language' than guns & ammo. It seems for some (or most??) 'flawless' would allow for some arbitrary percentage of 'problems', while others are perhaps more literal and say "almost flawless". Personally, I guess I'm on the 'not so literal' side, because I figure there is a reason the M16 was originally designed WITH a Forward Assist, and we practice 'tap,rack,bang' drills. Provided, of course, that the pistol is 'in spec', and properly maintained. Another reason to luv T/A.net, it really opens up the 'sphere of influence'. :D
 

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We are still working out the FTL problem with her PT22. Saturday we went to the range and ran about a 100 rnds thru it. This time using CCI Mini Mags (first time to try these) we've been using Remington Gold and having lots of tip up FTLs.
The gun had just been cleaned and lubed.
It seems upon the bullet entering the chamber it's coming up at the wrong angle (the way I see it) catching on the upper lip of the chamber and sticking. I can just touch it and it chambers. This time using the CCIs it seemed less of a problem,FTL and one stovepipe, however I wasn't paying attention to which mag had the most FTLs, I was having to much fun firing my Judge.

Has anyone tried adjusting their mags, such as filing a thousandth or so off the upper lips.

I'm pretty confident it's not the gun, it's clean, the feed ramp to the chamber is polished, etc.

Any ideas?
 

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Does anybody think the gun design makes a difference?? By that I mean the 'blow back' design like a Buckmark or Ruger MK vs a P22/SR22.
Hmmmm. Ummmm. Welllll.

The Buckmark, Ruger MK, Beretta Neos types that aren't trying to copy a larger caliber defense pistol have a much less vertical magazine than something like the P22, SR22P, or a Bersa. That sharp angle was taken into consideration for a reason, considering the rim on the cartridge. Also, It seems that the more angled magazines don't need as strong of a mag spring than in the near vertical pistol magazines.

I'd guess that the near vertical mags are forcing the rimfire rounds to the top as opposed to the more angled magazines guiding the rimfire rounds to the top. Less mag follower pressure and less ammo friction in the mag would seem to contribute to easier ammo feeding when the slide strips a round. Which apparently leads to a smoother slide travel with less "hitches and bumps" on its way into battery.

You can feel these differences when loading up the different magazine types and when cycling the slide to chamber a round.

View attachment 27165 View attachment 27166
 

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I have a 22/45 mark III that I have modified to make it the same as a Mark I. It will digest federal bulk all day. My Buckmark prefers 40grRNL.
 
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