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Discussion Starter #1
I just purchased a new Millenium Pro PT111... the instruction manual suggests I use 9mm 135 gr JHP. My friend who has one uses Corbon's 9MM +P 115 GR. JHP. Is there any other round out there that is good for this particular model? Also what would be a good practice round?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok i do realize this is kinda a newb question after looking through the faq section of this sight... I do realize that i should try a multitude of ammunition and brands to find what type of round best fits me... I should rephrase the question to ask, Are there any rounds out there i should stay clear away from with this particular model? I.E. rounds that are too powerful and will cause the firearm damage or rounds that are so incredibly unreliable that it would be in my best interest not use them... Thanks
 

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+P can be an iffy thing. There are loads , if they are at the user manuals velocity of 1225fps.. and as a 115gr. JHP, not a 124gr, then the +P will work
Here's some links that cover the whole schmeer. Most of it anyway. Reason for the links is that all the reasons and data are somewhere in here and all have important and pertinent data.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2224.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=1020.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=3612.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=4695.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=4792.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=4920.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2117.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2766.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2226.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net.forums/index.php?topic=2176.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=832.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=610.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=506.0

While there's lot here to digest this is one of the more asked questions that needs to go into some deep depths as far as explanations go.

Moral and ethical,reasons, plus the safety of you and others means that one has to do this kind of in depth exploring.

+P has little value in a short barreled pistol. Velocity gain is minimal for the increased battering of the pistol by the extreme pressures. Most of the energy is wasted outside the barrel of the gun. Potential is there, but never develops.

Find that most standard pressure loads work better. Newer generations of bullets have been designed to expand at low velocities. 680 fps or higher velocites.

Even the older Winchester White box JHPs expand decently. However, since bullet placement is the key, the choice is wide open as to which excellent grade ammo maker load you chose.

Many loads are in the links.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=5131.0

This link has the online and some local chain stores where ammo can be purchased.
While this is a lot homework I have a rep to maintain. Nickname is "Da Professor" after all.
 

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I have yet to find a need to use +P ammo or anything comparable in my firearm. If you need more umpf, get a bigger gun. Why put un-need stress and wear on a firearm and risk reliability?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I see what you all are saying... I'm definately staying away from corbon then... cant seem to find a round thats not +P with them... I think the next time I go out to the range, Im trying the Remington UMC 124gr 1100FPS and if its a bullet my gun likes, Ill stick to that as a practice load. Im still debating on what my defensive load will be... what do you think of Speer's Gold Dot 124gr 1150 FPS?
 

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The Gold Dots are fine rounds. They work well with my PT111. Other brands may work well, also.
Found out the 124gr. UMC stuff works well in mine for pracatice and as well as do the 124 gr. Golden Saber JHPs for defense.

Question is what defense load is accurate and functions 100% of the time in your pistol. This may take some experimentation on your part. Try different brands ( as many as is feasible) and see which has the best accuracy.

If you want to try Winchester SilverTip. It's at the 1225 velocity for a 115 gr. JHP.
If you want to go cheap, but still have a decent level of protection Winchester's USA 115 gr. JHP has the same ballistics as the SIlvertip mentioned above.

While the 115gr. JHP is derided by some reality in real defense shootings shows this to be a top performer. This is thoroughly documented in police and tactical journals.
In close quarter shootings, inside residences, or medium range defense engagements, this would be more than ample to the task.
 

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These are the ones I found performed the best, I use the 124g in the short barrel guns and the 147 in the longer barrel to achieve about the same volocity give or take a few feet per second, and they seem to open and retain the weight really good in either size weapon. I do not use the +P. If you order them from that website its still a great price even after shipping, you get 50 rounds in a box instead of 20 or 25 like most companys sell for about the same price

http://www.streichers.com/ProductDetail.aspx?Catalog=Guns and Ammo&Category=AMMO_DHAND&Prod=FC-9HST

 

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personally i like how the hornady tap 124 gr. shoots however that is a little on the expensive side
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I ended up getting the Federal Personal Defence 135gr hydra shock... a bit heavier, but i've been told the slower velocity makes sure there is no over penetration. I did try the Remington UMC on the range at 115 Gr and 124gr and to be honest I liked the 115 much better than the 124... I guess higher velocity = better precision and i really didn't notice much diference in the recoil sooo... I guess im going with 115 UMC from now on... thanks for all your help guys
 

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JMJ2 said:
I use Speer Gold Dot 124 gr JHP
Definitely one of the best quality self-defense loads out there. My PT92 loves it.
 

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Yakove, one to stay away from is the SXT +P+ which I got hold of by accident. Third shot fired took out the rear slide stop and locked the slide open. Had to send the gun back to Taurus. Otherwise, my PT-111 likes the 124 gr the best. I use either HydraShoc or Gold Dot 124s for carry and either 115 or 124 gr FMJ for practice. I've had no problems with it using most cheap American factory practice ammo.
 

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Taurus_9mm said:
Definitely one of the best quality self-defense loads out there. My PT92 loves it.
Ditto that, try the Speer ammo. Great defensive ammo and it gets me on target like no other ammo I have tried for the PT111 Mil Pro!
 
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I found the following on the web somewhere. I think it's Massad Ayoob's opinion on this subject:

I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE).
Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam, or (b) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only for First Class pistols (see table).


I believe the PT111 owner's manual says don't use +P ammo. Fortunately, he went on to say:

The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), and Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1).
For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6). For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP (R9MM1).
Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol!


FWIW I've successfully fed my PT111 HydraShoks and Gold Dots, so those are my self-defense loads.
 

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Anyone have an opinion of the Federals 185 gr (950 fps) hollow points?

I just picked up my new PT 145 today and have not had a chance to get to the range yet. But I did pick up a box of the Federals and plan to try them out. I also picked up a couple of boxes of FMJ range rounds that are 230 gr.

Most of what I read in all the Millenium Pro ammunition posts seems to be a mixed bag that boils down to "try it out and see what works for you." So I am interested in hearing from anyone that has tried the 185 gr above.

Thanks.
 

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I have found that the Hornady TAP is the only way to go. I believe the slick nickel plating on the casings help with feeding due to the extra friction caused by the thinner rough texture of the cheap steel magazines for my pt745. Every other gun I have uses thicker gage stainless for magazines. Not dogging taurus, just being honest. I also use TAP in my other SD guns. The hollow point edges seem to have a little more radius to them, instead of the sharp edge like the hydrashocks that I was using. There are a couple of other rounds that penetrate and expand a bit more, but the things I mentioned above, make it my recommendation. But, thats just me...
 

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I'm also waiting on a response to never use 147gr ammo in a 9mm pistol thing as well. :???: :???: :???: :???: :???:
 

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That bit of info from Mas from all the books and articles I have of his ( this includes his most recent books and publications) only mention this because the early 147gr JHP Winchester subsonics were to be used with supressed weapons only. The subsonic 147gr. JHP did not expand nor was it designed to.

Other early attempts at subsonic 147gr. JHPs were dismal failures at expanding also.

Since there was a clamor for the subsonic 147gr. JHP by the police and civilians, in part due to this being what the goverment uses and it's "new and exotic', ammo companies put these out there hurridly. Winchester was also selling a lot of the subsonic ammo so the other ammo companies wanted a piece of the pie.

Actual world street use showed the 147gr. JHP rounds did not expand and acted like round nosed 158gr. .38 Special loads. In otherwords dismal results in stopping felons took place.

With the advent of Gold Dot, Golden Saber, Ranger, Hydra-shok, and other newer generation hollowpoints, actual results of 147 gr. JHPs had and do have real world excllent records of stopping felons. These all do expand and penetrate as designed.

Problem is that overcoming the old failures and getting credit for the updated and better perfomance is a hard thing to overcome or get public acceptance for.

Overcoming old failures and conventional wisdom is hard to do

Add one other thing.

When 147gr. JHPs were first introduced there were many brands of pistols that would not function (may not now if the older 147gr.subsonics ammo is used) at all ever or well with these. Not enough energy to cycle the slide as it were.

Winchester OSM rounds and others of their ilk were made for specific gun and sound supressor, or combo packages.

There were cases where officers were shot because their gun jammed on the earlier 147gr. rounds.

Add to that there were multiple shootings where felons on drugs or fighting voilently absorbed large mulitple groups of hits of 147gr. ammo and did not stop their depredations. Or more than a dozen hits did not kill the perp.

These even had many through and through wounds ( passed entirely through the bad guy) where bullets went on to kill or maim other officers or innocent civilians.

Add up all that early past poor performance and it is any wonder anyone makes or uses 147gr. JHPs.

Since all that changed there is no reason if one's gun functions well with the newer generation 147gr. JHPs not to use them.

Actual on the street performance by the police departments that have and are using the newer generation 147gr. JHPs has been more than satisfactory.

So Mas Ayoob does not loathe and in some cases recommends the 147gr. JHPs.

Though it is said that the 147gr. JHPs are similar to having a .38 Special 158gr. LSWCHPs.

Then, the first felon shot with the 158gr. LSWCHP was a 300lb. man who dropped like sack of bricks. And the 158gr. LSWCHP is still the benchmark and excellent carry load to have. It's still getting the job done and doing it well.

If one wants some extra penetration over standard pressure 9x19 loads in the 115-124gr. bullet weight class, then go ahead.

+P 115 gr and especially the +P 124-127gr. class have been getting excellent penetration ( as much as the 147 grainers in most cases) and getting the job done.

One cannot go wrong going with any of these. Even the standard 115 -124 gr. JHPs have very good real world records. Have so down through the last few decades.

For those of you who go with another larger caliber,fine. Those do excellent field work as well.

This is not a caliber versus caliber debate nor will that solve anything.

Since the 9mmx19/.38 Special and up in size cartridges all give a decent to excellent level of protection, pick one that suites you and use it.

All the handgun cartridges are puny in power . Compared to rifle,shotgun, or crew served weapons these are miniscule in power. Many people survive getting shot by handguns.

The reason handguns are carried is for convience for the most part. Carrying something more powerful is not warranted in public overall. Carrying a shotgun or rifle everywhere is unfeasble for any number of reasons, so the handgun carried discreetly or openly is the norm.

Zulus, Whirling Deverishes, fanatical terrorists, criminals "on a mission", fanatical Moros, and the rest were and are not impressed by handgun, massed rifle fire, or shotgun power. All have gone on to wound,maim, or kill others before expring or ceasing ability to do so.
 
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