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WHAT'S AN INFIDEL ?
This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.

The man who walks with God always
gets to his destination. If you have a
pulse you have a purpose.


The Muslim religion is the fastest
growing religion per capita in the
United States, especially in the
minority races.

Last month I attended my annual
training session that's required for
maintaining my state prison security clearance.
During the training session there was
a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who each explained their beliefs.
I was particularly interested in what
the Islamic Imam had to say. The Muslim
gave a great presentation of the basics
of Islam, complete with a video.
After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Muslim and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad[Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'
I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'
The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

The Muslim was speechless .
I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question:
Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?' You could have heard a pin drop.
Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.
In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President.

I think everyone in the U.S.should be required to read this, but with the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on! This is your chance to make a difference...
FOR CHRIST'S SAKE....SEND THIS ON .. . ..
 

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Yup. It's pretty clear. Kind of makes you wonder why our government officials can't see it. Either that or they do see it, and they're a part of it. It would almost be worth it to see it happen, though. These liberals that holler so loud for diversification and understanding of other cultures would be the first ones killed. And they'll do the same thing to the homosexuals. But you can tell them that until you're blue in the face, and they'll still want to find out the hard way. Pretty much the definition of a dumbass.
 

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Yup. It's pretty clear. Kind of makes you wonder why our government officials can't see it. Either that or they do see it, and they're a part of it. It would almost be worth it to see it happen, though. These liberals that holler so loud for diversification and understanding of other cultures would be the first ones killed. And they'll do the same thing to the homosexuals. But you can tell them that until you're blue in the face, and they'll still want to find out the hard way. Pretty much the definition of a dumbass.
Our top goverment official IS a muslim.
 

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Our top goverment official IS a muslim.
Actually I don't think he's anything. I don't think he believes there really is a God. Power and ego are his true religion, and he only pays lip service to his supposed beliefs. Funny how he only goes to church when an election is looming. I'd like to be standing there when he finds out there really is a God - and He's been watching everthing BO has ever done. He'll do some power squirming on that day.
 

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Yup. It's pretty clear. Kind of makes you wonder why our government officials can't see it. Either that or they do see it, and they're a part of it. It would almost be worth it to see it happen, though. These liberals that holler so loud for diversification and understanding of other cultures would be the first ones killed. And they'll do the same thing to the homosexuals. But you can tell them that until you're blue in the face, and they'll still want to find out the hard way. Pretty much the definition of a dumbass.
nice reply, I agree 100%
 

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After reading that, it makes me wonder if Snopes isn't based out of Islamabad. I suspect the discourse supplied by Rick Mathes is at the least embellished, and at the most a fake, but I find Snopes rewrite of the scenario reversing the religions a bit over the top? I mean a simple yes it fake or no it's not would have been just as effective.
 
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After reading that, it makes me wonder if Snopes isn't based out of Islamabad. I suspect the discourse supplied by Rick Mathes is at the least embellished, and at the most a fake, but I find Snopes rewrite of the scenario reversing the religions a bit over the top? I mean a simple yes it fake or no it's not would have been just as effective.
I agree completely. Another example of why is Snopes the end all be all of fact verification. Anyone who automatically believes everything Snopes says without verification is no better than the person posting the original statement. The argument is "you shouldn't just repeat everything without checking it." Then they go to Snopes and accept that as gospel without question.
 

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'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith
pretty sure this already happened.. or am I mistaken?
anyhow, good post, 100% good read.
 

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pretty sure this already happened.. or am I mistaken?
anyhow, good post, 100% good read.
Not for the last thousand years or so. And there's no basis for it in Christian scriptures either. Muslim's, on the other hand, find these very tenets in their scriptures. How else do you think they get young kids to strap on bombs to kill a bunch of innocent people believing that God will be happy with their actions and reward them with 72 virgins? Seems to me someone once said "you know a tree by the fruit that it bears" and there's some rotten fruit on the Muslim tree. Course the first thing the Muslim's say is that it's just radical elements, but I don't see the mainstream Muslim's raising much of a fuss about jihad. Matter of fact, most of them seem to be fine with it - or at least way too quiet on the subject for an observer to believe otherwise. I trust them about as far as I can throw them.
 

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Good read regardless of ones beliefs. I have problems with all of this though. There are things in Islam that muslims say are "outdated" just like there are things in the Christian bible that are said to be outdated. There are horrible wicked things in both books that are "outdated". My problem is that if these books are the end all definate guidlines how can they be outdated?

Another thing is that this country was supposed to be built on a freedom of religion, however that mainly translates to a freedom of religion as long as it is a Christian based religion these days. The thing is alot of our founding fathers did not believe in a Christian god. Therefore a freedom from religion. Not true atheist beliefs just not a faith in Christianity. I am an Atheist as I believe in science, I will not hide that fact and I will not try to change anyones mind in their own beliefs.

Interpreting the Quoran litterally is much like interperting the Bible litterally. If you do it, we would have to bring back slavery and murder would run more rampant than it already does. Interpreting the ten commandments is much the same...as it does not say thou shall not kill....unless one is trying to harm you...it literally just states that one shall not kill. We could debate this for years and years and still never agree. You have to assume that most muslims are not out to kill you because they are not. I have many muslim friends that do not have any desire to kill non muslims just as I have many Christian friends that dont feel the Bible is the tell all end all and I have many Atheist friends that dont think religious people are ignorant for their beliefs.......but then you have the extremists and that is where the evil comes from the literal extremist and they can be found in every religion. Taliban and The Westboro Baptists are the 2 that come to mind immediately.

Just my .02 and for the record ones personal religious beliefs as long as there not of the extremist kind really are not hurting anyone. I could only imagine what would have happened had the Westboro group showed up at a funeral I happened to be attending. Just sayin.
 

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And knowing that my previous post probably pissed a whole lot of people off....let me clarify what I mean by literal translations. These are excerpts from papers that were written by an Atheist named Charlotte. The essays these were taken from are not copyrighted and can be found at Evil Bible Home Page. Also I have highlighted my text in red as to not confuse.


"Slavery in the Bible

Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.

Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.

The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?

The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)"

and furthermore as far as the Christian Bible not telling us to kill as it was stated by a previous poster, maybe you need to read your Bible a little more,

"Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

Judge other religions for not following Christ:
Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

Here are my two personal favorites:
Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10
A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33"

So to judge a Muslim simply because they are a Muslim makes one a Bigot!
Also sorry if this seemed harsh or abrasive, but this hit a point with me about how hypocritical religion can sometimes be.
 
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If you think you have any kind of understanding of the Bible from pulling a few passages out, you clearly don't understand it. Gotta read the whole thing, and most often it takes some help to understand. As it pertains to the topic at hand, you still aren't going to find Christian organizations fomenting violence against other religions in this day and age, and certainly not in the way radical islam is. The point is, it doesn't matter what you or I believe - they believe it. And they are acting based on those beliefs. And BTW - they don't care for atheists any more than they do for Christians. Right now it's an intellectual exercise for us to talk about it. If they achieve what they're trying to it might turn into an exercise in survival. Sounds alarmist, doesn't it? I'm sure this kind of logic always does in the calm before the storm.
 

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I prefer the more modern interpretation as "Thou shalt not Murder" rather than "kill".
Unjustified killing is senseless.
Look how many people were killed in Biblical times in wars, which would not be murder, but justified killing.
Even Moses when he parted the Red Sea and then let it close on the enemy. Was that murder? Don't think so.
I'm done.
 

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If you think you have any kind of understanding of the Bible from pulling a few passages out, you clearly don't understand it. Gotta read the whole thing, and most often it takes some help to understand. As it pertains to the topic at hand, you still aren't going to find Christian organizations fomenting violence against other religions in this day and age, and certainly not in the way radical islam is. The point is, it doesn't matter what you or I believe - they believe it. And they are acting based on those beliefs. And BTW - they don't care for atheists any more than they do for Christians. Right now it's an intellectual exercise for us to talk about it. If they achieve what they're trying to it might turn into an exercise in survival. Sounds alarmist, doesn't it? I'm sure this kind of logic always does in the calm before the storm.
I don't disagree with what you are saying. And I have read the Bible far more than I should have growing up in a very hardcore Roman Catholic household. I have also read the Quoran among other Holy books. You said it yourself when you said "Radical Islam" all Muslims do not represent "Radical Islam" as it is implied in the previous posts. Yes I am aware that NO RELIGIOUS organization cares for Atheists. But you are wrong in saying you won't find Christian organizations promoting violence, as I have already pointed out the Westboro Baptist Church. I know most Christian organizations don't condone Westboro, but the fact is Bigotry is in Religion, either it is that religions way or no way.

Another point made, the few passages I pulled out of the Bible weren't written just to be pushed to the side. The fact is religious texts are interpreted to suit ones needs, it has always been that way since the beginning. I don't dispute that one can believe what they wish to believe,and I am good with that. My point is to judge all Muslims according to the Quoran and then to do the same thing with a Christian and their Bible and say that I have to read it to understand it, well that makes it a double standard doesn't it? In a whole, the Muslim book is much less Violent than the Christian book. I didn't just become an Atheist because it was cool, I am not a follower. I made an informed decision through years of my own studying and practicing religion. I am not an extreme Atheist, you wont hear me saying that you are wrong in believing in the Christian way, or even the muslim way for that matter. I just think to post on this subject with an opinion that subjects a whole class of people into one similar group is bigotry at its core. It is no different than saying that all (insert race here) are (insert stereotype here).

Depending on what service you look at there are between 2million and 10 million muslims in the United States. If they followed the Quoran explicitly as stated, then I do believe that most of us would have had to use our firearms to defend ourselves by now. Maybe I am wrong, maybe they are all just biding their time and Allah is going to tell them when to start their Jihad. Or maybe, just maybe they are trying to live productive lives like normal, civilized people. One thing we have to look at, most of these Extremist muslims do not come from normal, civilized countries. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, just to name a few are not civilized countries. On the outside they may look Civillized, but I have operated in all of them, and make no mistake these people in general are told what to think and how to act. No different than the people of North Korea. When your environment produces you for your so called leaders agenda this is what happens. The Christian religion is no different, no you are correct not in this day and age, but not so long ago this is what the Crusades represented. The Spanish Inquisition the same thing. American Muslims are not so much different from American Christians. Sure there are bad apples, but that is in any bunch.

At any end, I come here to discuss guns not religion and in the end we may both be wrong or right. Only time will tell. Good day.
 
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Idle - sorry I am editing this post as we were both posting at the same time. I retract my statements.
 

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Although this has been a civil discussion of religion, it still violates site guidelines. And the fact that it is civil is appreciated, as it hasn't yet turned sour, as such topics usually do.

Closed.
 
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