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Discussion Starter #1
Do you have certain accuracy standards that guns you own have to meet?

Any gun I purchase, I immediately bring to my back yard range to check its accuracy. I first shoot a cylinder or magazine full to check function. I then check the accuracy of the gun on a sand bag rest. To me, 3" for a given gun at a given range is my standard. Compact and sub-compact is 7 yards. 4" to 6" guns are 25 yards. Over 6" is 50 yards. I don't do much with rifles, but when I do it is mid-point blank range. I usually test with three different factory loads. Using factory loads on new guns is a plus should something catastrophic happen with new guns.

I used to test guns as a side business for people and the local Sheriff's department in my county. After hundreds of tests, this is what I settled on.

-Newt
 

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That's fine for guns you target shoot for fun, your numbers sound good.
But for home defense... if someone kicks my door in and charges down the hall... I'm not shootin' off a beanbag and I'm not concerned about grouping. I'm concerned, instead, about how instinctive the gun is to get on target and fire without having to think about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
That's fine for guns you target shoot for fun, your numbers sound good.
But for home defense... if someone kicks my door in and charges down the hall... I'm not shootin' off a beanbag and I'm not concerned about grouping. I'm concerned, instead, about how instinctive the gun is to get on target and fire without having to think about it.
I agree, BUT knowing the gun's accuracy can only help shooting off the beanbag. If the gun shoots within standards off the bag and in the unsupported hand it shoots low and left, where does the fault lie? I have seen a lot of shooter's reviews about accuracy, etc. when they pick up a gun and shoot it unsupported. That only tells us about the shooter's ability to shoot. I suppose that is an argument where a shooter can shoot a bad gun well, but also show that a shooter can shoot a gun badly. Find out the accuracy of your gun and then practice to be able to use that accuracy when needed.

Someone depending on a gun for defense may want to be assured the gun is up to it as well as the shooter.
 

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If my PT22 isn't accurate to 1 moa at 100 yards, it is junk, no good, just throw it away.
 
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Different guns, different standards. Target rifle: 1" at 300 yds. Belly gun: 10" at 3 yds.

Seems to me that accuracy determines the uses for a gun, not the other way around.
 

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3" at 35 yards for pistol

Rifle
1" per 100 yards iron sights
1 1/2 with a scope
 

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Reliably hit a 9" pie plate at 10 yards. Hold one in front of your face or your chest and see why.
 

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Depends on the gun, I think. The purpose.

My High-Standard 22's (back whe I could see the sights and the target at the same time) off a rest, I expected the 10-ring at 25 yds.
My 45 and Officer's Model Match 8 or 9-ring on slowfire targets.

Any personal-defense gun, now, - - - YEAH! The 9" pie-plate at 10 yds! Rapid fire.
 
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Inside the 7 ring @ 25 yards and inside the 8 @15 for handguns on a standard B-27 silhouette target. Rifles are different depending on caliber. I expect sub-MOA for certain rifles and 5(ish) MOA for others.

B27.jpg
 

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Well, I'm not such a good shot as I used to be but I keep trying. Let me put it to you this way, if I shoot at a pack of dogs and one of them hollers I figure that's accurate 'cause I hit one of them.

Don
 
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I'm more oriented towards target shooting than self-defense. I expect the guns I shoot for target purposes (American 6" revolvers with adjustable sights) to shoot under 2" at 25 yards with cast bullet handloads. If they won't they get fixed or sold. I've rarely run into one that won't do it. Sometimes they need a little help.

Anything else I adopt a case-by-case basis since the guns are so wildly different. I have never shot anything but my target guns off of sandbags. Maybe I should try that. Shooting offhand with compact guns I like to see 4" at 10 yards.
 

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Plastic army men at 50 ft. shooting .22lr bullseye target pistols with fiber optic sights, and wearing modified bi-focal corrective glasses... Hand hold.

Otherwise, our target builds with 6-7" barrels using standard velocity target ammo, and shooting off the Ransom typically yields less than 3/4", 5 rounds.

Ultimately? We love to see a single hole smaller than a dime, shooting 5 rounds off the bench. But, that's a really good day and a good ammo batch.
 

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Plastic army men at 50 ft. shooting .22lr bullseye target pistols with fiber optic sights, and wearing modified bi-focal corrective glasses... Hand hold.

Otherwise, our target builds with 6-7" barrels using standard velocity target ammo, and shooting off the Ransom typically yields less than 3/4", 5 rounds.

Ultimately? We love to see a single hole smaller than a dime, shooting 5 rounds off the bench. But, that's a really good day and a good ammo batch.

What pistols do you build ? I am ordering a Nelson conversion but have been considering a S&W 41 but also looking at Hammerli and Pardini
 

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It depends on the weight criteria. We often will use Mk. III or IV Ruger frames, CNC Stainless or Alloy (no 22/45s), or S&W Victory frame as our foundations.

Generally we will utilize either Volquartzen or Tactical Solutions barrels never shorter than 6". The internals will consist of both Volquartzen and Tandemkross components.
Grips are dependent on the competition formats.

Volquartzen builds will generally group single hole at 50 ft off the Ransom. Of course, that's with quality ammo.

Below are some of our most utilized resources:

https://volquartsen.com/departments/pistols
https://www.tandemkross.com/
Randall Fung Match Grips
 

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What pistols do you build ? I am ordering a Nelson conversion but have been considering a S&W 41 but also looking at Hammerli and Pardini
MY local dope deal--ahh my local gun shop got in a S & W 41 back about 2 weeks ago , I have soooooo been trying to avoid looking/fondling/ slobbering on that thing!---
 

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Here is what my Buckmark will shoot at 25 yds. This is off of a rest, the problem is when shooting bullseye/one handed it is too light up front, well also I am not an Expert, Master or High Master. That is why I am ordering a Nelson conversion it will feel just like by 1911 bullseye pistol. The M 41, Hammerli and Pardini weigh more and you can get barrel weights.

20191123_203141.jpg
 

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depends on the reason for the purchase of that particular weapon.
I don't expect a standard sub compact to be as good as a semi custom mostly non carry gun.
basically all my carry guns should be able to print 6 inch groups at 15 yards, that includes anything that I amy carry from true sub compcts to 5 inch barerled.
For me its more important that the carry weapon be reliable than accurate.
most of my 22 plinkers are more than that accurate.
the inaccurate part of the weapons seems to be the loose screw behind the trigger for me?
ahh-what is this "CYLINDER" thing that you mention?? is that like a slang word for magazine?
 
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