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Shot placement, projectile design, and how many times CAN you shoot him?
I have 380, 9MM, 10 MM, 38 Super, 45 acp and I have settled in the 9 MM modern high expansion boolletts as my choice, In a SHTF scenario I honestly had rather have the extra 2-3-4 rounds with the 9 MM or 38 Super.
 

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I ain't shootin' for a hip, SORRY! The head, center mass, but no hips. Center mass is simply easier to hit than the head.
 

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Go to YouTube, and search "Why one cop carries 145 rounds".
This is about an LA cop who carried a 45 auto Glock with three magazines. He confronted a VERY determined gang-banger that had just robbed a bank. The perp jumped out of his car and immediately started shooting at the cop. In the shootout, the cop shot the perp 14 times; six of which were fatal shots, but not immediately so. By the time the cop finally stopped the perp with three shots to the head, the cop only had 4 rounds left in his last magazine.

After that encounter, that cop now carries a 9mm Glock with four 17-round magazines, and two 33-round magazines.

(4 X 17) + (2 X 33) + 1 (in the chamber) = 135.
I think the guy that posted that video flunked math.

But the point is that the cop has decided that quantity has a quality of its own.
 

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Sounds like he emptied the gun on him as quickly as possible. Heck. All ten shots could have gone into one, small, non-lethal area.
 

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I ain't shootin' for a hip, SORRY! The head, center mass, but no hips. Center mass is simply easier to hit than the head.

While you are right, most of the time torso hits are what is needed. Body armor is also used by determined shooters and the belly is exposed. The head is more difficult to hit, but the hip/pelvic area is the same width as the torso, therefore, a better full size target.

Further, in two pistol schools I attended, the pelvic region was taught as a good strike area. The larger bones of the pelvic area can ricochet bullets bouncing them around like a ping pong ball causing great damage.

Just a thought.
 

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While you are right, most of the time torso hits are what is needed. Body armor is also used by determined shooters and the belly is exposed. The head is more difficult to hit, but the hip/pelvic area is the same width as the torso, therefore, a better full size target.

Further, in two pistol schools I attended, the pelvic region was taught as a good strike area. The larger bones of the pelvic area can ricochet bullets bouncing them around like a ping pong ball causing great damage.

Just a thought.
Not to mention the pelvic region has large arteries running thru it. That is why many are against appendix carry.
 

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I am amused at the argument over caliber with no mention of caliber in the original story.
Let's face it, the only conclusion that can logically be arrived at is that there are a whole lot of variables, and nothing is certain.
 

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Assuming it was 9mm is a non sequitur.

I've read a lot of data on police shootings. 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45ACP. In terms of effectiveness, they are a wash. In short, if modern JHP ammo is used, it makes no difference. Vital hits are what proves effective.

Now what came out of the most recent FBI study.
1. more people across more demographic back grounds were able to qualify using 9mm. (smaller grip and recoil)
2. Follow up shots were more likely to hit and accurate using 9mm due to recoil recovery.
3. He who has the most ammo in their gun tended to prevail in an actual shoot out. (I know it is sad 😔)

On the logistic side
1. 9mm is cheaper and more rounds can be fired during qualification and practice.
2. .40 S&W handguns had a significant accelerated wear and more repair cost. Mostly to do with being built on 9mm frames. (I speculate the OSS in .40 S&W might have fared better being a .45 frame in size.)

Maloy
 

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I ain't shootin' for a hip, SORRY! The head, center mass, but no hips. Center mass is simply easier to hit than the head.
YEA!
plus IF the bad guy is wearing like 4-5 pairs of pants at different heights how do you REALLY know where the hip is located?

Sleeve Textile Gesture Event Street fashion
 
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I am amused at the argument over caliber with no mention of caliber in the original story.
Let's face it, the only conclusion that can logically be arrived at is that there are a whole lot of variables, and nothing is certain.
One thing is certain. If one has a gun they are far better off than an unarmed person.
 

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One thing is certain. If one has a gun they are far better off than an unarmed person.
Unless having the gun makes someone more likely to be confrontational...

See! Nothing is certain.
 
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I heard of an incident where a .45 hard ball round glanced off a guys skull with little or no effect. Course it had to be an angled shot to begin with.
I used to know a WW2 vet (he's gone now) who claimed he had a steel plate in his forehead from getting hit with a bullet in Europe. It could've been a 9 but I think he said it was an 8mm. It damaged his skull severely but it didn't enter the brain. As an EMT and later as an RN I've had a few patients who have had head shots that didn't penetrate either, all of those were handgun rounds. They must've all been angled shots of some type.
 

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Speaking of angled shots,

 

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Did anyone notice that just before the larger cop was beat on the head he let off 3 rounds on the innocent guy in the red shorts that had hit the road running. He was shooting at the wrong guy and that is why he was hit on the head. The perp must of been out of ammo. Maybe the cop is color blind and doesn't know the difference between red and white shorts but more than likely in the heat of battle all he saw was the high capacity pistol (looked like a mac10 with a 30 round magazine). But worse of all he lost sight of his target then picked the wrong one. I bet both those cops will be more alert on next pullovers..
 

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Did anyone notice that just before the larger cop was beat on the head he let off 3 rounds on the innocent guy in the red shorts that had hit the road running. He was shooting at the wrong guy and that is why he was hit on the head. The perp must of been out of ammo. Maybe the cop is color blind and doesn't know the difference between red and white shorts but more than likely in the heat of battle all he saw was the high capacity pistol (looked like a mac10 with a 30 round magazine). But worse of all he lost sight of his target then picked the wrong one. I bet both those cops will be more alert on next pullovers..
Yes, I too noticed that he was focusing his attention on the guy in the red shirt that bolted into the tulies. I just figured that he knew something about that subject that the video doesn't make clear. I also wondered why the perp with the mac 10 looking gun didn't fire his weapon at the LEO instead of hitting him with it, so I assumed that, like you thought, he ran out of ammo or the thing jammed on him.
 

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3. He who has the most ammo in their gun tended to prevail in an actual shoot out. (I know it is sad 😔)
I'm sure that's true if one is serving as an LEO. I'm not. I've been reading about defensive shootings for years, and don't recall reading about a fifth shot. Not really sure about a fourth shot either.

If things might get bad, I have a RIA 1911A2. 15 rounds of .45 ACP. That's my choice, even if it were sitting next to a 17 or 19 round 9mm. Momentum makes handgun rounds work, and momentum rewards mass. 230 grains bean anything 9mm.

What? Gotta do my part for the caliber wars!
 
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I'm sure that's true if one is serving as an LEO. I'm not. I've been reading about defensive shootings for years, and don't recall reading about a fifth shot. Not really sure about a fourth shot either.

If things might get bad, I have a RIA 1911A2. 15 rounds of .45 ACP. That's my choice, even if it were sitting next to a 17 or 19 round 9mm. Momentum makes handgun rounds work, and momentum rewards mass. 230 grains bean anything 9mm.

What? Gotta do my part for the caliber wars!

yea I gots a 14 +1 capacity 1911 as well, but my "I am going to Atlantastan" and may need to stop a crowd or a runaway MARTA bus is my Tanfoglio 10MM wiff like 17 rounds of ammo and a extra clippy thang in me back pocket.
 

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