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That's what I overheard an LGS employee tell a customer the other day. Customer was examining a Kimber Crimson Carry but was expressing his worry about carrying it in Condition One. This was the employee's "reassurance"! Obviously, the customer, who seemed new to handguns, if not shooting as a whole, wasn't very comforted. I couldn't stay quiet anymore. Because I'm not brushed up on my Kimbers, I asked the employee whether they were Series 80 types, which he confirmed, then explained the additional internal safety to the other customer, and told him about the 1911 I often hip-carry when I'm out and about in the woods, always "locked-and-cocked." I spoke briefly of practicing until comfortable but always being careful not to be "too comfortable" with a gun (he seemed interested in the gun for CC), and all in all tried to assure him that an AD was NOT A GIVEN IF PROPER FIREARMS SAFETY WERE CAREFULLY OBSERVED!! I left the shop soon after and do not know the customer's final decision, but I hope he didn't get scared away from handguns by a reckless salesman.

By the by, I don't mean to imply that anyone here who has experienced an AD or ND is reckless or foolish, but to say that the attitude of "oh, it's just gonna happen eventually" is both dangerous and stupid.
 

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Not to defend this guy but its not a bad way to think of it.

You should always assume it will happen just like you should always assume a gun is loaded.
 

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Well, if it should happen "never pointing a weapon at something you don't intend to destroy" may keep one out of trouble (with everybody but the wife!).
 

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Agreed that you should be prepared that it could occur, however if you make it sound as if it will happen eventually, someone who is new to firearms may be completely scared away and worse they will then spread the word as learned from a "gun expert". I believe that we can all attest to the negative publicity that runs rampant when it comes to firearms.
 
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While it's possible that an accidental discharge may occur, i think it a bad tactic to sell a gun and in the process potentially scare away a would be gun owner.
 

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Another thought occurs in that if a person is new to handguns one modeled on the 1911 design is not the first one I would suggest.
 

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It's one thing to tell someone that accidental/negligent discharges are POSSIBLE with any firearm, but not something to be EXPECTED. You can walk outside and have the possibility of being run over by a bus, but you shouldn't expect that every time you hit the pavement. The best safety is the one between your ears IMO, so if you remain attentive and regimented in how you handle them, you decrease that possibility by leaps and bounds.
 
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He should have said, sir, with the proper training, and following the simple safety rules, this is not likely to happen. Anything is possible, but if you keep your bugger hook off the trigger, the safety on, this gun is not going to go off.
 

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I was not there, so I cannot say whether his statement was appropriate or not without the context of the conversation.



That being written I must post two viewpoints-one, a 1911 should not be a pistol sold to beginners. There is a reason most law enforcement agencies like the FBI and the LAPD require demonstrated proficiency with the 1911 above and beyond the 'qualifying' grade to carry one on duty, because handling one safely requires specific PRACTICE.

Like any other topic in society there are those at the edge of the statistics who will devote the time and effort to master a platform,next to the 90 odd percentile who buy a gun and stick it on a shelf. Most buyers of guns generally are in the latter.For folks like that a DA/SA or Glock safe action system works best as those are shooting platforms that require no effort to learn besides safe administrative handling and just drawing and shooting.

Tap-rack-bang, draws with frame mounted safety deactivation, and ability to switch 8 round mags quickly are skills that do not come in the box with the pistol.

Second, I would consider a negligent discharge or a 'near miss' thereof to be an inevitable thing for all shooters. It is not to state that I feel all gun owners are unsafe nutjobs but as the saying goes 'manure happens'.

The millionth time you rack the slide and the extractor didn't grab the case,the time your wife yells exactly when you eject the mag, the instance you thumb decock and there's oil on your thumb, or perhaps you switch holsters and try a close quarters drill that goes south....all of these event can and have led to an unexpected loud noise and temporary hearing loss on the part of the shooter.

I consider no-shoot near misses in this category too, for example there was a time I re-holstered my carry weapon in the car and felt my index finger get trapped between the trigger guard and the kydex material of my IWB holster in a very unusual way. Because it was a traditional double action firearm nothing happened but it caught my index finger with enough force that had I had a Glock or Springfield XD model the weapon would have fired.I know that much, and it was not because I was negligent.

I would rather a new gun owner believe he WILL have a negligent discharge and thus remain vigilant always to prevent it versus a gun clerk calling it a rare event and laying the mental groundwork for another Tex Grebner incident.
 
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If you think it, it will happen. If you practice not, not likely.
 
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Thanks for stepping up and saying something. We need more firearm enthusiasts to speak up to the non and wannabees.
 
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It's one thing to tell someone that accidental/negligent discharges are POSSIBLE with any firearm, but not something to be EXPECTED. You can walk outside and have the possibility of being run over by a bus, but you shouldn't expect that every time you hit the pavement. The best safety is the one between your ears IMO, so if you remain attentive and regimented in how you handle them, you decrease that possibility by leaps and bounds.
.....
 

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It's also easy to let the guard down when one is tired,exhausted, too familiar with the gun, or have that zone out moment. Getting distracted figures in as well.

Us old shooting vets need to be vigil just as much as anyone else. That familiarity breeds contempt thing get one in a heap of trouble fast.

If you checked the gun once or twice, check it again. Redundancy can keep one and others safe if you use it right. :)
 

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Accepting the fact that a negligent discharge can happen to anyone at anytime, and doing everything you can to prevent it from happening, is part of being a responsible firearm owner.

The same rules that keep a DA/SA from having an ND apply to a 1911.

Follow the 4 rules of safe weapon handling and always keep your head in the game when around firearms.

Our egos and complacency have no place around firearms.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Accepting the fact that a negligent discharge can happen to anyone at anytime and doing everything you can to prevent it from happening is part of being a responsible firearm owner.

The same rules that keep a DA/SA from having an ND apply to a 1911.

Follow the 4 rules of safe weapon handling and always keep your head in the game when around firearms.

Our egos and complacency have no place around firearms.
I don't believe I could have said it better myself.

And, for the record, my first handgun was a PT-1911.




*edited because I initially picked up the wrong quote!*
 

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Many years ago when I was starting out in shooting my mentor was a gun store employee and a wise old one at that. One day as I was watching him hand guns over to customers to observe he would always check the chamber before and then again afterwards, over and over again. When I asked him why he kept rechecking chambers that he had already checked he replied "Because ammunition has a tendency to breed". True Wisdom, Grasshopper.
 

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Many years ago when I was starting out in shooting my mentor was a gun store employee and a wise old one at that. One day as I was watching him hand guns over to customers to observe he would always check the chamber before and then again afterwards, over and over again. When I asked him why he kept rechecking chambers that he had already checked he replied "Because ammunition has a tendency to breed". True wisdom, grasshopper.
CSB: The owner of a now defunct gun store I used to frequent spent one weekend a month at a regional gun show hawking wares. He was as much a fanatic about checking a gun every time he found one in his hand as the guy mentioned above. He even got me doing it, and it's not a bad habit. Anyhow, it was ritual with him to check his stock and zip-tie the trigger, hammer,chamber/whatever to ensure the gun would be safe. Gun show rules also required it. One Sunday evening he got back to the store and carried unsold stock into the store. Before putting it away, he did his usual check on a shotgun and and a shell popped out. I wasn't there, but one of his helpers said his face turned white as the proverbial sheet. He knew that gun wasn't loaded when he put it on the table at the show, because he had checked it. So sometime during the show and in spite of the zip-tie, some jackwad managed to load that weapon. Who knows when the miscreant did it, or how many people handled that weapon during the two days of the show?

I manned the tables with him at a couple of shows, and we were so busy handing guns to people, answering questions, and wiping guns down after a potential customer had fondled them that it was very difficult to keep an eye on everybody, so I have a hard time saying it was his fault. But if some ignoramus - and there are a lot of those at gun shows - picked it up, sighted down the aisle, and pulled the trigger, well ... I can guess why he paled. :eek:

And on a completely irrelevant note, there's an old saw in the aviation community that says there are two kinds of pilots: those who have made a wheels-up landing, and those who will. No corollary regarding those of us who always land with gear down and welded. 8)
 

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Lots of good points made here and an interesting discussion. I recently had to explain to my brother why my 1911 is cocked and locked in the bedside holster. I finally got him to understand that it was designed to be carried in that fashion and there are two safeties that have to be engaged/disengaged along with a trigger pulled before it will go bang (he's a revolver guy).
 
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