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Discussion Starter #1
I have been reading a lot about firearms being sent back to Taurus for FTFs, FTEs, shooting too low and so forth. As I read this, I am wondering how much of it might be attributed to user error? I have been shooting more than twenty years, and consider myself pretty proficient.

However, after a winter off, I really needed to tune up! I had some issues, but my shooting buddy pointed out some problems with my hold and trigger pull. After making these adjustments, the functioning issues disappeared. It just makes me wonder if training is needed more than factory inspections? By all means send your firearms in if there are problems. But give the firearm a little time to break in (if new), and put in some time tuning up your own mechanisms! :D
 

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User error is extremely common, however, if the same problem is happening to a lot of people, it may be a little more than user error... Or if the same user error is happening because of a common mishandling or some such, then perhaps it should be addressed, either in the user manual, or known issue release. For example, if 1,500 people are sending back their model x pistol, but the error would not be occuring if those people were to hold the pistol slightly differently, the manual should note the proper hold.
 

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User Error! That's my favorite line when people are complaining about things at work. :D After the 4th of 5th time hearing that from me, they get the idea and pay attention to what they are doing.
 
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I kind of like user error, it lets good guns end up in the used case for me to adopt. XD
 

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User Error! That's my favorite line when people are complaining about things at work. :D After the 4th of 5th time hearing that from me, they get the idea and pay attention to what they are doing.
I've got these on my office door:
 

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User error, I get that all the time, but its usually my computer. My computer guy used to tell me my errors are caused by a loose screw........between the computer and the chair. :)
 

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I think "User Error" is far too kind a term to say that TOO MANY IDIOTS are buying guns. As someone who actually reads product reviews while researching a purchase, I am constantly amazed that the media hasn't been able to make the case for all the brutal gun attacks committed by these evil weapons against these 'Innocents'. I don't mean magazine reviews, I'm talking about Customer Reviews by the actual "User". If you haven't before, I dare you to go through some of the reviews at Bud's, or other retailers. On the one extreme, a User rated a 24/7G2 "4 Stars" without even firing a shot. Well then, why not 5 stars??

Reviewed By: Tristan A on 03/01/2012
Rating:
[4 of 5 Stars!]​
Just got this in from my FFL....it's a nice setup. Good box - speedloader - 2 keys for the security system and 2 mags. Wish they had extra mags w/the grip extender available but I guess I'll have to wait a while for one of those. The gun is solid, and I'm looking forward to shooting it in a little while.

Then you have the other extreme, that obviously did ZERO research, has ZERO experience, and frankly, has ZERO business owning a weapon. This "User" didn't even bother reading his manual, since he was trying to rack the slide on a PT22, and probably didn't clean it before use.

Reviewed By: james o on 01/27/2011
Rating:
[2 of 5 Stars!]​
It looks nice. I bought this gun for my wife. Don't waste your money, the slide is impossible to pull back. The CCI's 36-40 grain work 4-5 rounds a mag. Service from Buds was great but that won't help my wife when needs it. Buy a walther or beretta!

I dare say 'Users' like these are eventually the ones that get in the papers and make life harder for the rest of us. Hopefully, they will give up some sweet guns to the used market, VERY SOON.
 

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I love the second one with the PT-22. Guess he thought the flip-up barrel is an option and not really the right way to load it.
 

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I think this is dead on. Here in NC, any one can go get a permit to purchase a handgun as long as they are 21 and pass the background check. The same background check that they rerun at the LGS. You don't have to have ANY training or KNOWLEDGE of/with firearms. Now to go get your NCCCW permit you have to find an approved instructor, pay his class fee ($85-$125 on average), pass his class which consists of many hours of laws, and then a quick range session demonstrating that you can holster, unholster, load, unload and discharge your weapon. You don't even have to hit the target. It is a pure joke. I served in the Military, I participated in to many firefights to count. I let my opinion be known too, and for that I was almost asked to leave the class without my paper saying that I passed. Really.
I then had to take my BS certificate to the Sheriffs office where they once again run the background check and the decide to allow/deny your CCW within 45 days. I was allowed mine within a few days (dont know if that had anything to do with my Military background or my clearance) but my good friend with a squeaky clean record but no LEO or Military history took a full 40 days to receive his.
The point is MORONS with no business owning a firearm are allowed to walk around concealed and untrained. Particularly disturbing and could be disastourous in a life or death situation. Of course I understand that it is ones own responsibility to be trained but in my experience at public and even the private range there are several people I observed doing absolutely unsafe things with their weapons and the worst part is when you point it out to them or the range officer you get looked at like you are the idiot. So now we pretty much only attend one very strict indoor range or shoot on private property. To many unsafe, untrained and stupid people not being responsible gun owners. The anti's do have a point when they say it is too easy to get a gun, unfortunately there is going to be an avoidable ACCIDENT and we wont ever hear the end of it.

Sorry kind of got off topic with that, but training, repitition and knowing exactly how to use your firearm safely and correctly go hand in hand. And shootimg a handgun is not like riding a bike, it takes practice and repitition to be consistent all the time. Without a constant regimine of pra ti e you get rusty and forget the ins and outs of your weapon.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I pretty much agree with this IDLE. I truly believe that firearms training should be mandatory for all citizens. I have seen people at the range who are basically monkeys shooting firearms. However, as it is not mandatory, we walk a thin line. If we deny ownership to any law-abiding citizen, I truly believe it is a slippery slope for more legal control of everyone's rights.

BTW, the rule is similar here in IA. Ordinary Joe needs to take a class. However, if you are former military or LEO, you just bring in the correct papers, and you can get your CC, no hassle.......
 

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Meanwhile...back to the OP.

If new gun owners put in as much time in research and training as they did in action movies and video games, they would have less "pilot errors" to blame on the gun.

You don't get the experience to drive by a 200 mph Suzuki Hyabusa crotch rocket by watching Grand Theft Auto 5 times.

They seriously need to start out on a quality double action revolver till they have the basics down pat; before EVER considering buying a semiauto...let alone a "lightweight-sub-compact" semiauto.
:thumb:
 

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I pretty much agree with this IDLE. I truly believe that firearms training should be mandatory for all citizens. I have seen people at the range who are basically monkeys shooting firearms. However, as it is not mandatory, we walk a thin line. If we deny ownership to any law-abiding citizen, I truly believe it is a slippery slope for more legal control of everyone's rights.

BTW, the rule is similar here in IA. Ordinary Joe needs to take a class. However, if you are former military or LEO, you just bring in the correct papers, and you can get your CC, no hassle.......
Yeah, im not looking to infringe on anyones rights, I have to purchse a permit to buy a handgun. It costs $5. If you already have your CC this does not apply. Maybe for your first permit it should imclude a gun safety course with a Sheriffs deputy. I know in other states it doesnt work that way, and realistically when the right to keep and bear was being written, having knowledge of your families weapons was a neccesity as opposed to nowadays where many people grew up never even seeing a weapon but deciding they want one not realizing the responsibility that goes along with it. Not denying rights just working on safety to help us keep those rights.
 
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