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Watching a documentary on the AHC channel called “America: Fact or Fiction”.

They’re discussing the “problem” if gun violence in the old west. You know, looking at the TV and movie version of fast draw and gunslingers popularized and romanticized in the media - even dime store western novels. Turns out it is much more Fiction than Fact. Most of the people who even got involved in a gunfight were only able to hit each other at point blank range. There are, in fact, only a couple of documented “town square” or street shootouts and those became over reported and overhyped. Gun violence rampant in the old west? FICTION! As the various authors, historians, history professors pretty much summed it up: the west would have never have been populated if chances of dying from gun violence was a real concern.

Consider the period: 1870-1885 in five of the most well known cow punching towns in Kansas: Dodge City, Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita and Caldwell experienced only 45 homicides total. Average: three homicides per year.

By contrast, Cincinnati experienced 17 homicides in 1880 and the further east you looked the rates were higher!

So, next time someone claims that carrying firearms will result in the streets running red with blood like in the old west, you can school ‘em Or just say “I hope so”.
 

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Watching a documentary on the AHC channel called “America: Fact or Fiction”.

They’re discussing the “problem” if gun violence in the old west. You know, looking at the TV and movie version of fast draw and gunslingers popularized and romanticized in the media - even dime store western novels. Turns out it is much more Fiction than Fact. Most of the people who even got involved in a gunfight were only able to hit each other at point blank range. There are, in fact, only a couple of documented “town square” or street shootouts and those became over reported and overhyped. Gun violence rampant in the old west? FICTION! As the various authors, historians, history professors pretty much summed it up: the west would have never have been populated if chances of dying from gun violence was a real concern.

Consider the period: 1870-1885 in five of the most well known cow punching towns in Kansas: Dodge City, Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita and Caldwell experienced only 45 homicides total. Average: three homicides per year.

By contrast, Cincinnati experienced 17 homicides in 1880 and the further east you looked the rates were higher!

So, next time someone claims that carrying firearms will result in the streets running red with blood like in the old west, you can school ‘em Or just say “I hope so”.


I was going to like this but am a little confused about the last six words. (starting with the word "Or") Why would anyone say that?
 

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Watching a documentary on the AHC channel called “America: Fact or Fiction”.

They’re discussing the “problem” if gun violence in the old west. You know, looking at the TV and movie version of fast draw and gunslingers popularized and romanticized in the media - even dime store western novels. Turns out it is much more Fiction than Fact. Most of the people who even got involved in a gunfight were only able to hit each other at point blank range. There are, in fact, only a couple of documented “town square” or street shootouts and those became over reported and overhyped. Gun violence rampant in the old west? FICTION! As the various authors, historians, history professors pretty much summed it up: the west would have never have been populated if chances of dying from gun violence was a real concern.

Consider the period: 1870-1885 in five of the most well known cow punching towns in Kansas: Dodge City, Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita and Caldwell experienced only 45 homicides total. Average: three homicides per year.

By contrast, Cincinnati experienced 17 homicides in 1880 and the further east you looked the rates were higher!

So, next time someone claims that carrying firearms will result in the streets running red with blood like in the old west, you can school ‘em Or just say “I hope so”.
The downside to that is that many of the towns in the Old West prohibited guns inside the city limits.

The shootout at the O K Corral, while rooted in a feud between rival groups, sparked over gun confiscation.
 

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You would say, "I hope so," because gun violence was so low. And gun banning in towns was fairly rare, it was a trend started in later days by Wyatt Earp. BTW, he was fined in the 20's in San Francisco for carrying a gun, the freaking hypocrite.
 

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Watching a documentary on the AHC channel called “America: Fact or Fiction”.

They’re discussing the “problem” if gun violence in the old west. You know, looking at the TV and movie version of fast draw and gunslingers popularized and romanticized in the media - even dime store western novels. Turns out it is much more Fiction than Fact. Most of the people who even got involved in a gunfight were only able to hit each other at point blank range. There are, in fact, only a couple of documented “town square” or street shootouts and those became over reported and overhyped. Gun violence rampant in the old west? FICTION! As the various authors, historians, history professors pretty much summed it up: the west would have never have been populated if chances of dying from gun violence was a real concern.

Consider the period: 1870-1885 in five of the most well known cow punching towns in Kansas: Dodge City, Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita and Caldwell experienced only 45 homicides total. Average: three homicides per year.

By contrast, Cincinnati experienced 17 homicides in 1880 and the further east you looked the rates were higher!

So, next time someone claims that carrying firearms will result in the streets running red with blood like in the old west, you can school ‘em Or just say “I hope so”.
I read an article recently about the myths of the old west and it stated that Dodge City, supposedly one of if not the most violent of the old west towns, had only five homicides during its deadliest year.
 
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Hey, I've been to all five of those Kansas towns (and live in one of them).

Over the last decade or so, the Kansas legislature removed laws prohibiting carrying of weapons, first openly then concealed, and each time we were told blood would run in the streets. While we do have our share of homicides, it hasn't been the loss of blood that was predicted. Even when state university students were allowed to carry on campus (including classrooms) crime went DOWN!

Of course, it is all irrelevant. Crime statistics have no bearing on restrictions of rights. I don't care how many murders there have been here in Wichita or in Chicago, neither should AT ALL calculate in to some type of reason to eliminate rights. How many false advertising claims will we tolerate before we need a license to speak in public? How many grammatical errors in newspapers will we tolerate before those statistics show we must license newspapers? How many convicted televangelists should we tolerate before we start registering preachers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You would say, "I hope so," because gun violence was so low.. And gun banning in towns was fairly rare, it was a trend started in later days by Wyatt Earp. BTW, he was fined in the 20's in San Francisco for carrying a gun, the freaking hypocrite.
Exactly what I meant.
 

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Hey, I've been to all five of those Kansas towns (and live in one of them).

Over the last decade or so, the Kansas legislature removed laws prohibiting carrying of weapons, first openly then concealed, and each time we were told blood would run in the streets. While we do have our share of homicides, it hasn't been the loss of blood that was predicted. Even when state university students were allowed to carry on campus (including classrooms) crime went DOWN!

Of course, it is all irrelevant. Crime statistics have no bearing on restrictions of rights. I don't care how many murders there have been here in Wichita or in Chicago, neither should AT ALL calculate in to some type of reason to eliminate rights. How many false advertising claims will we tolerate before we need a license to speak in public? How many grammatical errors in newspapers will we tolerate before those statistics show we must license newspapers? How many convicted televangelists should we tolerate before we start registering preachers?
Agree with all of this! Particularly agree that no laws should be established if they affect any specifically enumerated civilian rights guaranteed protection under the constitution! I know of no nation which would disarm its military if they were going into war! Ok, so there are a few.

Mankind is not perfect but the US is the only country which enumerates all the freedoms in its organizational document. There are citizens of countries all over the world who would gladly give their life if it guaranteed their families for generations just the simple right of freedom of speech. And the US is on the brink of further suppressing freedom of speech as is spouted about daily by liberal news media.

Anyway, back to topic, we are in the middle of a war on crime. A war, by definition, is fought by opposing forces - military or otherwise. If one force is armed for war, it stands to reason the opposing force should be as well. Well, one force (the criminals) never seem to have a shortage of arms; if we keep reason in play, the opposing force (the general public) needs to be equally armed.

And as to the anti-gun crowd’s shouts “no member of the general public needs ‘MILITARY ARMS’” I simply say this: no country or nation on the globe has ever armed their military with a semi-automatic AR-15! Read that again slowly so it can sink in. No standing official armed force for any nation on earth has ever gone into battle armed with a semi-automatic AR-15! Remind folks of this whenever they use the “military arms” argument.
 

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I think the concept of everybody walking around with a sixgun on their hip is a lie. Guns were scarce and expensive and the population in general was poor. There was limited utility for handguns. People spent what little gun money they had on rifles, shotguns, and ammo. Just look at how many old single barrel shotguns still survive to this day. Your average schmuck was far more likely to spring for a Winchester rifle than a Colt SAA if he did have some cash. He could hunt with the rifle.

Buying a Colt SAA was like buying a high grade side-by-side shotgun. Frontier people were more practical. A single barrel shotgun and a bunch of shells would cost waaay less and feed the family for a year.
 

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You would say, "I hope so," because gun violence was so low. And gun banning in towns was fairly rare, it was a trend started in later days by Wyatt Earp. BTW, he was fined in the 20's in San Francisco for carrying a gun, the freaking hypocrite.
Okay, I get it now. You mean "I hope so" as in "like the old west" when gun crime was actually lower than today. Mind works a little slow early in the morning. :)
 
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