[joe sixpack]

i understand your upset but i dont like minimum sentencing i think the judge should have a lot of leadway in what they sentence.

25 years sound excessive imo this would also include crimes that involved a gun but even without being discharged.. rob a corner store.. prehaps you flash the gun, maybe its' not even loaded you automaticly get 25+ years?

man that is harsh because chances are they will die in prison.


the punishment should fit the crime but i think this is to much.

 

[joe sixpack]

i think it would be better to get them help.. ask our self why is this person doing what they're doing.. i just see tacking on 25years as being a death sentence and i think a lot of good people will be discarded.

not to mention the prisons i know you say you will pay higher taxes but i couldn't even imagine how much higher the taxes would have to be.. probably several folds.. they'ed have to have high rise prisons..

and if you get tough on someone who uses a gun you'ed have to get tough on every one..

could you imagine someone who stabs someone could probably get less time.


if you threw me in prison right now for 25 years 1 of 3 things would happen..


1. i turn into a blood thirst animal to survive, probably killing other inmates and getting yet more time tacked on.
2. i hang my self.
3. i become a victim repeatedly rapped & beaten till i either commit suicide or get killed.

i'd rather just take the death penalty anyway since i'd be a old man by the time i got out.
i know it's one thing to sit and say we gotta get tough on these criminals.. but i think we need to deal with the cause of the problems and not focus on the punishment which is really the very end result.

education, community programs, and welfare.

education to teach people why drugs, gangs, and violence is a bad thing.
community programs to bring people together and better their neigborhoods.. how many people know their neighbors beyond their names.. how many even know their names?
welfare to help people who are mentally ill. as well as making sure kids are'nt being abused and have food to eat.

i can understand why gangs are popular.. i can understand why people rob corner stores..
gangs offer a sense of family they either dont have or need as protection from other gangs.
people rob stores and other people either they are mentally ill, a lot of times they need drug money, or have no money and are desperate.

we need to work to ensure that gangs, drugs, and violence is not the most attractive choice.. and we can't do that with threats of greater and greater punishment.. the greatest threat is the death penalty and people still commit murder.

gotta ask your self why would someone commit a crime like that which carries the possibility of death?

perhaps the only thing worse you could threaten is slavery, torture, to really drag out the agony, then death.

i dont think any punishment will stop crime, it might reduce it some but i think the added cost of housing all those prisoners will far out weigh any drop in crime you might see.

 

[joe sixpack]

*shakes head*

point is you make the assumption that everyone in this situation is total write offs of humanity.
those 3 out comes typically apply to everyone in prison.. not just the people you wanna lock up the most.

what about the 17 year old him and his friends stole a car to joy ride.. are they write offs?
send them to prison for 2 years and 1,2,3 can happen to them..

obviously you have no concept of mercy, im glad i do not know you irl.


well then i guess im gonna have to break it down in practicality for you..

this will never happen, we have over crowding already do you honestly thing the system could take those kinds sentence not only in length but in number of inmates?

your fooling your self.. you wont, no i take that back.. can't possibly pay for that kind of prison system.

and if you're going to crack down on this then you have to do it across the board, which again you can't do even if you wanted..

i suppose you could execute them though to save costs and space.. could you imagine the out rage at the number of executions? never happen.. never ever happen.. politically, financial, and practically this is all impossible.

and if you think increases sentences will be a strong enough deterrent.. you're fooling your self.
its this sort of thinking that says "well if we increase gun laws it will stop gun violence", wrong.

if you think this will stop shooting sprees, wrong again.. how many of them are taken alive? how many of them are even alive when the cops show up.

you can throw all the punishment you want, you're just treating the symptoms not the cause.. but until you realize that this country will never change.

 

[joe sixpack]

To be sure, it would be very expensive in the beginning. But I am looking at the entire cost society pays for stolen property, medical care and lost lives. It might be a whole lot cheaper than you think if you look at the long term, larger picture. You need to factor in the immediate savings to society coupled with the HUGE deterrence factor.

if someone can still commit murder with death penalty often a possibility what makes you think 25 years will be a significant deterrent?

thats exactly what you are banking on since punishment comes after the fact.. that means the cost society pays for stolen property, medical care, and lost lives.. has not changed.

in the case of stolen property the state does not replace stolen goods, so you would rather have every tax payer suffer the loss rather then the individual.. instead of being mugged for their laptop you can pay for it out of you pocket with higher taxes.

Perhaps i under estimate the deterrent value.. i dont think so.. or perhaps you over estimate it.. but either way you will be footing the bill regardless and i believe the bill will be insurmountable.

or do you imagine the crime rate reduction would be staggering? like -30%?

remember the higher crimes like murder will probably see no change, lower crimes perhaps you will see a decrease but the lower crime that are committed will now be facing double or more sentence time then they would have before.

 

[joe sixpack]

i never suggested getting rid of punishment like prison.. my point is there becomes a point where harsher punishment will not have any effect except a larger prison system with more prisoners and larger bill.

i also object that this be blanket applied to all offenders, in essence the punishment should not be more horrendous then the crime.

heres a quotes i like:

One is absolutely sickened, not by the crimes that the wicked have committed, but by the punishments that the good have inflicted; and a community is infinitely more brutalized by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime.

 

[joe sixpack]

The punishment should by all means be more horrendous than the crime. That's why it's called punishment.

And you say you know what mercy is.