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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
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Value, as used here, is simply the price of the gun/capacity. This is a measure of the initial cost per round for the firearm.
Of course, there is more to value of a firearm than this simple ratio but it does provide a starting point to compare relative
values and value to a firearm. Certainly, longevity, reliability, number of rounds fired before major repairs are needed as well as
aesthetic value, pride of ownership and comfort would come into play in determining value. But the data is not readily available
on these variables, so we shall do with what we have and see where this simple ratio takes us.

The average cost per round for these 8 pistols is $50.34. If we use this figure we can see that the average pistol, by this measure
is a better buy than your average revolver. If the revolver were priced on a similar level as these pistols the average 5 shot revolver
would cost $251.70. Good luck finding a new revolver at that price.

The four most expensive guns average $60.83 per round. Applying the same logic and cost per initial round would price the more
expensive revolvers at $304.15.

The four least expensive pistols based on initial price and capacity average $39.85 per round.
The four least expensive guns average out to $379.50 while the four most expensive pistols average $563 (48% more than the less expensive pistols).

The PT111 Millennium Generation 2 stands out as an attractive buy that might be able to do double duty as a concealed carry
and a home defense gun. It should be noted, and I was surprised to see, that the gun is wider than the Glock – which has
a well deserved reputation as being chunky.

One use of this table is to select a variable, for example width and find those guns that are less than an inch thick. That results in
a comparison of four guns - Shield, LC9, 709 and the Kahr. Three of the four guns are pretty much on the same value level, as used here.
The Kahr is significantly more expensive so the question is...is the cost difference made up in the other characteristics of the firearm?

As I see it the value of the table is related to the comparisons that can be made and additional questions raised in selecting
a firearm.

Studying this table has me rethinking some ideas I had about which firearm I wanted to buy. Some of the intangibles mentioned in
reviews on youtube, in forums and articles is making some decisions easier and other considerations needing to be evaluated on a
subjective leve have made me ask additional questions. In any case, for me this has been a useful exercise.
 

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I assume you would be buying a pistol for concealed carry?

In a concealed carry gun I also value slimness, smallness, no manual safety, and true double action trigger (if available). Due to that, capacity can be diminished depending on one's requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I assume you would be buying a pistol for concealed carry?

In a concealed carry gun I also value slimness, smallness, no manual safety, and true double action trigger (if available). Due to that, capacity can be diminished depending on one's requirements.
Right...and to the extent one can quantify those and other things we can come up with a crude measurement of the desirability of those attributes that make up the gun. Of course, the sum of the parts may or may not be greater than the whole. Some variables may be some overwhelmingly important that they over ride other considerations.

Chico, as you point out that you know what you value you can judge how much weight to give the variables listed. And based on your knowledge you know which guns don't meet your criteria. So what is left is the pool of eligible guns that meet your requirements. On that basis one can differentiate and select the gun that most meets one's needs.

This is just a simple attempt at pointing out how one can systematically go about the process of selection/deselection. By thinking this way we can see that we need more information to be provided to us by the gun manufacturers.
 
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Another thing to consider is, which of those guns come only with one magazine? Which guns come with two? Having to buy an extra mag ups the "apples to apples" price on certain models.
 

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Some variables may be some overwhelmingly important that they over ride other considerations.
Very true. It can be hard to tell for sure until you can check out the guns in person. However, analyzing all the specs before the purchase is something I do as well. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Another thing to consider is, which of those guns come only with one magazine? Which guns come with two? Having to buy an extra mag ups the "apples to apples" price on certain models.
One of my pet peeves...guns that come only with one magazine. I think the gun community should put pressure on manufactures to provide a minimum of two magazines (some manufacturers provide 3 - very responsible).
 

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I question a few of your numbers. For instance, I know my PT-111 MP slide is not as wide as a Glock 26 slide (as I have made holsters for both), and the MP-G2 is supposed to have a thinner slide than my MP. The most width on my MP is actually in the frame where it meets the slide. Dollar figures are way off from my current local costs and I guess that is to be expected. For instance, the Kahr CM-9 is going for $350, the 709 Slim for $300, and the S&W M&P Compact for $450 in my local area, here in the foothills of north Alabama.
 

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...The PT111 Millennium Generation 2...It should be noted...is wider than the Glock – which has a well deserved reputation as being chunky...
Two hundreds of an inch, 1.20 vs. 1.18, isn't that much of a difference in width and isn't the total tale of the "Chunky" grip story.

When one factors in the "fore & aft" measurments of the grip, the GLOCK feels like a piece of scrap 2X4 wood in one's hand while the much more ergonomically designed Taurus feels like it was molded to your hand.:icon_ banana::icon_ lala::icon_ banana:
 

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I think the most important factors are left out. How does it fit your hand and how does it shoot? I do like the analytical process, perhaps to eliminate contenders. The table gives a nice comparison of specs. I relate specs to cars sometimes though, who cares if a car has 300 hp if the clutch sucks and the suspension rides like covered wagon. Gimme 200 hp and a slick shifting racer on rails.
 

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There are other things that go into the selection of a pistol that aren't in the table. Stuff like accuracy, perceived recoil, magazine disconnects, mode of operation (DAO, SA, SA/DA), durability, or even warranty length. Some things you don't find out until you actually shoot a firearm, and I'm still of the opinion that there's no substitute for trying before you buy. Tables are useful, but they're just one tool. Getting my hands on them before buying is still a requirement for me - and preferably on the range.
 

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aphdmansoc,

There was no offense intended by our comments to your post.

Your original post has some outstanding information in it that goes a long way in helping folks decide which way to go in their next gun purchases.

We merely meant to "add" to this founte of information to enhance it's usfulness. :thumb:
 

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I too am a numbers guy and do the same thing when buying a gun. I put down all the things I can come with on each gun to be considered. I have never determined a way to compare those stats in the form of a chart that when added up, it creates a number value to assign to each gun. I guess I am just not that smart! I always have little side notes on the things that others have mentioned that can give one gun a plus one way or another and that too helps me decide - kind of like getting extra credit on a project in school. Once I narrow it done, I do like to go to the range and rent one if available. Shooting tops all the numbers I can come up with. I like the chart and think it can be very helpful when you look at the data it presents. Thanks for sharing it with us. Very interesting.
 

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aphdmansoc,

There was no offense intended by our comments to your post.

Your original post has some outstanding information in it that goes a long way in helping folks decide which way to go in their next gun purchases.

We merely meant to "add" to this founte of information to enhance it's usfulness. :thumb:
Absolutely correct. What you put together takes time and is very valuable at narrowing the field. With all of the options out there now (a luxury problem) this is not an easy process, especially if you are willing to consider multiple calibers. Thanks for the format, I may be using as a start when shopping for a 1911... hmmm now to start filling in a table
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
aphdmansoc,

There was no offense intended by our comments to your post.

Your original post has some outstanding information in it that goes a long way in helping folks decide which way to go in their next gun purchases.

We merely meant to "add" to this founte of information to enhance it's usfulness. :thumb:
Thanks, I understand that.

Couldn't agree more that you have to hold and if possible shoot a gun to really know whether its the gun for you. One of the things I learned when I started this is the paucity of useful information that manufacturers provide their customers, even though they have the information and it could be easily provided. For example, width of the gun is one thing AND wouldn't it be nice to know the measurements of the grip both length wise from the bottom of the trigger guard to the end of the grip, and giving us info on the circumference of the grip would be helpful to many of us. Advantages of knowing these types of things could help narrow down the selection process by permitting comparisons of measurements related to what we know we are already comfortable or uncomfortable with.

I also agree that subjective factors play a crucial roll in firearm selection. As was pointed out, some folks like a slide safety other folks hate them. This and any other characteristic could be added to a table like this. I would hope that gun manufacturers would enhance the data they provide their customers. I was impressed with either the Walter or Sig Saur site that provided a great deal of information in table format.

In my haste, I noticed that *MSRP was omitted. It was on an earlier post in a different thread but as I expanded this it was inadvertently omitted. Before things went crazy significant discounts could often be had on guns. This would then impact on the "Value" or initial cost per round in the table.

If others were to use a format similar to this as Josh indicates he might then I as old teacher will feel that the exercise was worth it.
 

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Thanks, I understand that.

Couldn't agree more that you have to hold and if possible shoot a gun to really know whether its the gun for you. One of the things I learned when I started this is the brevity of useful information that manufacturers have but don't provide. For example, width of the gun is one thing AND wouldn't it be nice to know the measurements of the grip both length wise and circumference? Advantage of knowing that would be knowing the general measurements that we are already comfortable or uncomfortable with.

I also agree that subjective factors play a crucial roll in firearm selection. As was pointed out, some folks like a slide safety other folks hate them. This and any other characteristic could be added to a table like this. I would hope that gun manufacturers would enhance the data they provide their customers. I was impressed with either the Walter or Sig Saur site that provided a great deal of information in table format.

In my haste, I noticed that *MSRP was omitted. It was on an earlier post in a different thread but as I expanded this it was inadvertently omitted. Before things went crazy significant discounts could often be had on guns. This would then impact on the "Value" or initial cost per round in the table.
I was wondering where that asterisk lead to. :D
 

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Unfortunately, MSRP is useless here in CT right now. I saw a USED PT111 gen 1 or 2 (no dovetails) with 1 10 round mag selling for ... wait for it... $499.99 just a couple of weeks ago. Price non-negotiable. This was at the same LGS where I bought a used PT111 3rd Gen with 2 mags for $180.00 in July.

I won't go back there anytime soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Unfortunately, MSRP is useless here in CT right now. I saw a USED PT111 gen 1 or 2 (no dovetails) with 1 10 round mag selling for ... wait for it... $499.99 just a couple of weeks ago. Price non-negotiable. This was at the same LGS where I bought a used PT111 3rd Gen with 2 mags for $180.00 in July.

I won't go back there anytime soon.
Nothing like being customer friendly!
 

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Pardon my ignorance, I'm rather new to owning a pistol and seriously considering a pt111 g2 for my next in the next few days... I would love to fire it first, before buying it. I couldn't do that with my sig and I regret that to a certain extent. The pt111 g2 would be my edc so I'm wary of purchasing without even holding it let alone firing. Not a single gunshop in my area even has one, and none rent for firing anyway. Just my area or a sign of the times?
 

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My guess is that the way inexpensive "high cap" handguns are flying off the shelves right now makes a dealer not want to use a gun for rent when he can sell it for a huge profit, especially a new model in 9mm. You may have to wait a while to fire one at a range or LGS taht rents. Depending on where you are, you may be able to get someone on here to let you shoot it. If I had one and you were local, you could fire mine, assuming you paid for a beer or 3 afterwards!
 
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