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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I personally don’t own an AR, but I do have a mini14 with my name on it in my father’s vast collection of firearms. However, I’m seeing the writing on the wall in regard to semi auto rifles that fall under the broad “assault rifle” definition and believe the push to rid us of such devices is only going to get stronger. It’s at a high point right now and the only thing preventing this currently is a Republican president and house/senate, but that won’t keep forever. If Hillary were in there right now, and that was much closer than many of you seem to think, she would be signing an executive order right about now. Many red states have turned purple, many politicians that have been staunch 2A and NRA supporters in the past seem to be much more willing to find a middle ground. This will only increase as more mass shootings occur with such weapons, and you can bet as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, they will happen. So I’ve been thinking of alternatives.

Personally my desire for such a device has been purely from a logical and defensive standpoint. “If” God forbid I ever found myself in a situation where the evil of the world spilled up to and past my front door, I want to stop that threat ASAP, and I want the best option for doing so. A semi auto rifle offers power, fast follow up, ease of use, reliability, and overall safety where having 4 points of contact (2 hands, shoulder, cheek weld) on a firearm is a magnitude better than only having one (one hand with the other supporting) that a handgun provides. Less chance of missing when every bullet has a lawyer attached and my intention isn’t to hurt anyone other than the person(s) trying to hurt me goes a very long way and is most certainly the desired result if I ever had to pull that trigger.

The one drawback to an AR, or any other long gun for that matter in a home setting is that if you need to move from room to room, you have a very long platform in your hands that isn’t optimal for the tight confines of many homes, or cutting pie. So with that in mind, and also knowing that the AR and similar weapons have become public enemy number 1 with a very uncertain (or very certain IMHO) future, what’s the solution? My thinking is an SBR (Short Barreled Rifle). Not in SBR of an actual rifle with a shortened barrel however because then we’re right back at square 1, but an SBR in the sense of a handgun with a stock and foregrip allowing for that optimal 4 point contact and reduced length from a standard long gun. Currently there are a lot of devices that will turn your Glock and many other handguns into an SBR.

The RONI and HERA systems are the two most popular currently, although there are certainly a few more out there.




The problems with these types of systems is that they cover the handgun with the handgun having to slip into them, and any time you cover the slide and ejection port of a semi auto pistol you are setting yourself up for potential malfunctions. Both of these systems have very good reliability reps, but they are not perfect.
There are other systems as well that don’t cover up the handgun.




But because of the way the stock connects to the handgun, there’s some slight wobble and I have to wonder just how much they would hold up under prolonged or harsh use. Honestly I’m surprised no one has taken advantage of the piccatiny rail on the frame of most of the handguns to help assist with stabilization. Say a forward grip that attaches to that, the base of that extends to the magwell, perhaps even offering up a flared assistance, in some way holding or attaching at that point, then extending to a common stock mounting system as you see on all AR, so that you could attach whichever stock grabbed your fancy or met your local laws. That would solve all potential feeding/cycling issues, be light, and provide a stable shooting platform as it would be mounted to the frame rather than just flimsily attached. Hmmm… perhaps I need to invest in a 3D printer and get to work as there might be a market here.
Now, having brought in the SBR option as a possible solution to what many of us are trying to achieve, we can’t have this discussion without talking about the legalities. After all, running from one possible legality issue to one that is already certain and in the books isn’t much of a solution. There are 4 ways to address this.

1. Go the law abiding citizen route. You can own an SBR (in the overwhelming majority of states), but you have to fill out some paperwork and pay the troll in order to do so.

2. Forego the stock for a stabilizing brace. Currently this is legal to do, so long as you don’t let it touch your shoulder. Once you do that it’s no longer a brace, but a stock. In a home invasion, where it’s just you vs the bad guys, I’m sure that’s going to find its way to your shoulder. But who’s going to tell on you? If an overzealous DA wants to make an example of you, simply demonstrate to the court that you did in fact bring the firearm up so that you could look down the sights and thus fire is safely, but it was a few inches from actually touching your shoulder because you’re a good boy and would never do such a thing.

3. Do you have one of those kits that quickly detach? Good, remove your handgun and stash the kit out of sight and out of mind before the police arrive for your statement.

4. Stash the body instead. I really really don’t recommend this option though.
 
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Isn't that what a Hi-Point 4595 already is pretty much? It's designed around their 34510 pistol fitted with a 17.5" barrel. It's gotten some good reviews (other than from the regular Hi-Point haters) and at around $300 (or less) looks to be a bargain. Aftermarket support is very lacking however, and with only a 9 round mag capacity sux. There are non-HP higher capacity mags available but HP says if used, they will void the warranty. I agree that with the AR platform taking social criticism and possible sanctions being placed on it, the SBR and PCC market might be poised to take off. Frankly, if HP made a higher capacity mag available for the 4595 I think they'd have a runaway hit. Though I'd never buy a Hi-Point pistol for SD or carry, a hi-capacity 4595 would look pretty attractive to me.
 

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If/when they get the votes to ban AR's, SBR's will be in the same paperwork. As will many others.

As to #3. Never lie to the police. You don't wanna be found not guilty in the shooting, only to face felony gun and perjury charges.
SBR's/AR pistols are fun at the range, but I don't see any advantage in a home defense situation. They're not much easier to wield than a rifle and you don't have the option of a free hand for flashlight or a "hold off" arm for an intruder. Just My opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If/when they get the votes to ban AR's, SBR's will be in the same paperwork. As will many others.

As to #3. Never lie to the police. You don't wanna be found not guilty in the shooting, only to face felony gun and perjury charges.
SBR's/AR pistols are fun at the range, but I don't see any advantage in a home defense situation. They're not much easier to wield than a rifle and you don't have the option of a free hand for flashlight or a "hold off" arm for an intruder. Just My opinion.
3 and 4 were more for giggles and jests than seriousness. That's for the "I lost all my guns in a boating accident" crowd. I don't think SBR's will be in the same paperwork, they are an overlooked area largely because they aren't common, and are already heavily regulated.
 

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Isn't that what a Hi-Point 4595 already is pretty much? It's designed around their 34510 pistol fitted with a 17.5" barrel. It's gotten some good reviews (other than from the regular Hi-Point haters) and at around $300 (or less) looks to be a bargain. Aftermarket support is very lacking however, and with only a 9 round mag capacity sux. There are non-HP higher capacity mags available but HP says if used, they will void the warranty. I agree that with the AR platform taking social criticism and possible sanctions being placed on it, the SBR and PCC market might be poised to take off. Frankly, if HP made a higher capacity mag available for the 4595 I think they'd have a runaway hit. Though I'd never buy a Hi-Point pistol for SD or carry, a hi-capacity 4595 would look pretty attractive to me.
1911 mags work in the 4595 including the 30+ round drum mags. The only mag that will affect the warranty are the ProMag 15 rounders in the 995TS 9mm PCC it breaks the LRHO.
 

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The only long gun I own is an AR-15. With the exception of my full size .357 Revolver, the rest are carry guns of different stripes. I do not hunt, although I could if I wanted to. I live in an urban setting. In short, my firearms are all dedicated to defensive duty.

Having said that, American citizens have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Period. Any discussion about how to limit who can have what gun or what kinds of guns can be owned, or even who can own guns is a diversion.

What part of free speech are you willing to water down?
What part of your personal papers and belongings are you willing to water down?
What part of unreasonable search and seizure are you willing to water down?
What part of due process are you willing to water down?
Why in the world are we willing to water down our gun rights?

The Second Amendment guarantees all the other rights.

For those who remember The Cold War, let me just say that having a massive nuclear arsenal was never about using them. It was, and still is, all about having such a powerful deterrent that nobody would dare test the resolve of the other.

We don't have millions of AR-15's because we want to send out Red Dawn squads fighting government agents. We have millions of AR-15's as a deterrent to our own government to ever try such a thing.

Citizen ownership of weapons is the teeth of liberty. Tyrants are just trying to pull those teeth now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The only long gun I own is an AR-15. With the exception of my full size .357 Revolver, the rest are carry guns of different stripes. I do not hunt, although I could if I wanted to. I live in an urban setting. In short, my firearms are all dedicated to defensive duty.

Having said that, American citizens have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Period. Any discussion about how to limit who can have what gun or what kinds of guns can be owned, or even who can own guns is a diversion.

What part of free speech are you willing to water down?
What part of your personal papers and belongings are you willing to water down?
What part of unreasonable search and seizure are you willing to water down?
What part of due process are you willing to water down?
Why in the world are we willing to water down our gun rights?

The Second Amendment guarantees all the other rights.

For those who remember The Cold War, let me just say that having a massive nuclear arsenal was never about using them. It was, and still is, all about having such a powerful deterrent that nobody would dare test the resolve of the other.

We don't have millions of AR-15's because we want to send out Red Dawn squads fighting government agents. We have millions of AR-15's as a deterrent to our own government to ever try such a thing.

Citizen ownership of weapons is the teeth of liberty. Tyrants are just trying to pull those teeth now.
Our only say if we want to stay law abiding is by voting. Funny thing about voting, some people get what they want, and others don't. Sounds like you've been around long enough to have experienced both. My opinion is that this is only going to get worse, and eventually something similar to what Bill Clinton put into motion will happen again. Plenty of people weren't willing on that one either, but that didn't change anything, and my guess is that will happen again too.
 

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Until I started working as an RSO at the Wildlife Range I really didn't have any idea how popular the AR platform is. I will take a conservative guess and say 65% of the folks using the range are shooting AR's. Most will bring other weapons such as handguns to shoot while waiting for a lane on the rifle range but the bulk of their shooting is with the AR and some bring multiple AR's in multiple calibers. What really surprised me is where most of these folks are from. Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Wake Forest, Roxboro, Greensboro, Winston Salem and all their surrounding cities and communities which are all heavily democratic and liberal areas.
 

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Part of me says that if they ban "assault weapons" the 2A is dead. The rest is just mopping up. But the liberals passed an "assault weapon" ban before, and it was their last hurrah before decades of failure to pass any other gun control.

But still, what you're describing would be a dark time for freedom.
 

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The anti gun sentiment in this country is VERY strong, im hearing practically zero talk in support of gun rights. Add to that, the only organization that is nationally known to be in support of the 2nd, is pretty much being taken apart, the NRA is loosing all of its support from other companies. Folks that says a lot, think about that, all the rest of the things that happened, have not gotten anything negative against the nra done, but this time people are targeting it specifically and they are winning. Im thinking the libs have hatched on a winning strategy for once, dont go for the 2nd until the organizations that support it have been cut off at the knees. Right now it is the nra, once its largely no longer a problem, you can bet that seeing it work once, they will turn the same tactics against the other organizations. Once those are gone, so to will be the people they support in our government. And once those people are gone, the 2nd wont have much protecting it anymore. This wont happen overnight of course, but it is a long term strategy that will work. And shootings like the one in FL, just accelerate it, when another one happens, if there is anything left of the nra, it likely will be taken down for good, sure it will still be around, but it wont have the power to do much. I've even heard people comparing it to the nazi party........... tossing the term baby killers and such, and the term nra blood money was coined almost before the shooting it seems.

When ar's get banned, along with many other semi auto firearms, thinking trying to not call it an assault rifle and being adamant that it is a semi auto rifle is now biting us in the backside, cause the current call to ban isnt against ar's, it is all semi auto rifles. When that happens, not to worry, we will still be able to own these.

My personal take on it is, you should never trust a government that wants an unarmed people
571b6690abf078581593fd1ccddd9f46.jpg
 

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If the left gets it's way we will be lucky to have pump shotguns, and lever actions. One bill I saw proposed already was to ban all semi auto weapons, including pistols.
I'm with you as if they get their way, there won't be any firearms owned by civilians. Well...law abiding civilians anyway. Even after that, these elitists, will still have armed security for them but still say "There is no reason for you all to need them"! :eek:
 

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The only long gun I own is an AR-15. With the exception of my full size .357 Revolver, the rest are carry guns of different stripes. I do not hunt, although I could if I wanted to. I live in an urban setting. In short, my firearms are all dedicated to defensive duty.

Having said that, American citizens have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Period. Any discussion about how to limit who can have what gun or what kinds of guns can be owned, or even who can own guns is a diversion.

What part of free speech are you willing to water down?
What part of your personal papers and belongings are you willing to water down?
What part of unreasonable search and seizure are you willing to water down?
What part of due process are you willing to water down?
Why in the world are we willing to water down our gun rights?

The Second Amendment guarantees all the other rights.

For those who remember The Cold War, let me just say that having a massive nuclear arsenal was never about using them. It was, and still is, all about having such a powerful deterrent that nobody would dare test the resolve of the other.

We don't have millions of AR-15's because we want to send out Red Dawn squads fighting government agents. We have millions of AR-15's as a deterrent to our own government to ever try such a thing.

Citizen ownership of weapons is the teeth of liberty. Tyrants are just trying to pull those teeth now.
Really well said! I especially love the last line!
 

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Part of me says that if they ban "assault weapons" the 2A is dead. The rest is just mopping up. But the liberals passed an "assault weapon" ban before, and it was their last hurrah before decades of failure to pass any other gun control.

But still, what you're describing would be a dark time for freedom.
As I often tell many of my neighbors that complain about our small city Government and how its been operating for the last 10 or so years!
Theres a way to correct this-- its called a VOTE!!
just have a good memory when it comes time.
 

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I agree, it's just a matter of time, not much time either, that there will be, at a minimum, an "assault weapons" ban or a semi-auto firearms ban.

I'd go with what YoungandFree posted. Buy or build a AR pistol in a rifle caliber or pistol caliber...or both!
 

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NRA membership is going up as we type, don't let the lib media fool you into to thinking that
the NRA is dying. I am a little worried, but not much on the outcome of this free for all attack against the 2nd, at the
same time we all need to start bellying up to the bar and fighting this crap! I don't own an AR( have something else like it) but
I really don't think the libs want to see what can be done with other firearms I have that are as good if not better than an AR....................
 

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No one should fool themselves. The goal is to get them all, and make citizens, into subjects to the government.

Watch CNN when they say it is, "treasonous to question the FBI".

We should always question authority.

Maloy
 

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Are not the libs questioning our President, I believe that would also be treasonous..................
 
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I am thinking of buying an AR simply as a speculative investment. If I was able to make a good enough margin I would buy a used one and sell it when the price spikes due to panic buying.
 
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