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there are 3 responses to increased demand. Shortages, price increases, rationing, which 1 would you prefer?
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry but %33 profit is just plain bullshit. You wanna make a few bucks of a pack of ammo fine, but making $10+ each pack, shit even the stores don't mark it up that much. The gouging isn't necessary and should be illegal. I just can't believe people are paying it and giving these tools the satisfaction.
 

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So would you institute rationing or just go with no ammo available?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I have ammo. Just like to buy some here and there. I shoot a lot uspsa and such and I do not reload (I prob should) i have a few thousand rounds that will last me until August. So I try and buy some every now and again just to replenish but it's becoming pretty much impossible now. So to answer your question, when the ammo is all gone its time to move on. I will be forced to forfeit shooting until we have a better leader and people stop taking advantage of there fellow comrade. A lot of people are giving up shooting and moving on to something else right now. Ranges are hurting bad. I was at a range over the weekend and he said i was his customer all day. He's losing money everyday, he will eventually shut his doors if this keeps up. It is what it is.
 

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I agree with your stand somewhat, but I bet he is sold out soon. I have more than enough factory ammo to last a few years and the same for reloads and components so I am not taking part in this run. Ammo cannot be found and people who need it or are scared will pay for it or do without. It is going to hurt a lot of businesses. One of my major reloading suppliers is only open 2 days a week now instead of 6 and has laid off all but 1 employee due to not being able to get supplies. I feel for him
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I agree with your stand somewhat, but I bet he is sold out soon. I have more than enough factory ammo to last a few years and the same for reloads and components so I am not taking part in this run. Ammo cannot be found and people who need it or are scared will pay for it or do without. It is going to hurt a lot of businesses. One of my major reloading suppliers is only open 2 days a week now instead of 6 and has laid off all but 1 employee due to not being able to get supplies. I feel for him
Yep! Once my ammo is gone and I can't find anymore that is reasonably priced well my shooting carrier will end. I will keep all my hollow points to defend my house and family which isn't much. Is what it is. It's too bad it's come down to that, but your going to see people dropping out of the sport at a alarming rate including myself. If after this president we finally get a good president and ammo becomes available (yes I predict that's how long this is going to stay like this) i will come back to the sport. I don't NEED to shoot. I enjoy it, but sometimes in life what you enjoy isn't always the case.
 

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well of course if people own something then they can try to sale it for whatever price they think they can get.
Now the buyer is the person that determines just how bad they need/want the particular item in question.
IF there are no buyers then typically the prices fall.
The particular range that i frequent is pretty much full everytime i go, been that way for about 4 months now, actually it was a mad house right after Sandy Hook but has settled down a bit now.
of course they have commercial reloaded ammo and new factory ammo, pickings are slim but they seem to keep a bit in for range use.
personally i just go down to the Frankenstein laboratory , grab a ammo arm, leg, brain and make some completed ammunition monsters myself.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Every range around here is dried up. No ammo. If you get lucky you might find a box or two but usually a two box limit.
 

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Every range around here is dried up. No ammo. If you get lucky you might find a box or two but usually a two box limit.
That's because they were selling it too cheap!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Too cheap? The have to sell it for $30 because thats what all the other gouging morons are doing?. I respect the fact that they didn't try and gouge people and they still aren't.
 

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Just came back from the range around here. They charged me $15 for 50 rounds of 9mm. That is their limit. No clue how soon they will run out.
 

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Too cheap? The have to sell it for $30 because thats what all the other gouging morons are doing?. I respect the fact that they didn't try and gouge people and they still aren't.
No, too cheap as shown by the fact that they are out.
There are only four ways to address difference between supply and demand:
  1. Increase production
  2. Accept shortages
  3. Impose rationing
  4. Raise prices so that demand and supply are aligned.
That's it - there are no other ways to address the situation.
I daresay that manufacturers are doing what they can. If you think the market is bigger than the supply, then start an ammunition company. I bet that once you get copies of all the forms you will need to fill out to start a company, you will give up in disgust.
So which of the other three possiblilities do you advocate?
The advantage of the last one - raising prices, is that it is the only one that allows for free trade and discourages hoarding.
 
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well my regular range has 2 types of ammo!
one is the commercial reloads, they are for sale only if you use them on the range, and there is a 5 box max limit.
and they have factory new ammo ( most is FMJ cause there are no self defense rounds much to be ahd) now you can shoot these on the range or take them with you, still a 5 box limit ( don't matter if its the same caliber or mixe calibers -its still 5 boxes).
Prices on the range time has remained constant, prices on ammo has risen maybe 1 -1.50 per box and this seems to be an increase in their whiolesale price they pay.
But now prices can be all over the place!
I see primers listed by individuals at up to 100 bucks per K, then again my range sales them for 50 bucks per k and i saw some today at 38.95 per k, unfortuantley they were large primers and i got plenty of them.
Ammo is the same, prices everywhere, i just don't buy at hugely inflated prices myself.
 

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It's like when my brother-in-law put his house on the market. I asked him what it was worth.

His answer was that it was worth whatever he could get for it.

My next question was, how much did he think he could get for it.

His answer was -- he hoped he could get a lot more than it was worth.

The sad thing about the 'ammo flippers' is that most of them aren't paying the jacked-up market price for their supply. They likely either got the ammo at chain-store prices where the price was marked at preset mark-up levels, and had an inside contact to get the ammo before they had to compete for it, or lucked into a fair-minded retailer putting it on the shelves at pre-shortage prices. So if/when the supply/demand curve resets to reality, they won't be burned that badly with high-priced overstock.

But until the situation does sort itself out, there isn't anything unlawful about what they are doing. And the ethics depends on who's ox is being gored. For some folks, if one of these guys was a buddy, and he was passing them ammo at 'regular' prices while gouging other people, they wouldn't be callling him names. They'd just think he was a pretty sharp operator.
 

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It's like when my brother-in-law put his house on the market. I asked him what it was worth.

His answer was that it was worth whatever he could get for it.

My next question was, how much did he think he could get for it.

His answer was -- he hoped he could get a lot more than it was worth.

The sad thing about the 'ammo flippers' is that most of them aren't paying the jacked-up market price for their supply. They likely either got the ammo at chain-store prices where the price was marked at preset mark-up levels, and had an inside contact to get the ammo before they had to compete for it, or lucked into a fair-minded retailer putting it on the shelves at pre-shortage prices. So if/when the supply/demand curve resets to reality, they won't be burned that badly with high-priced overstock.

But until the situation does sort itself out, there isn't anything unlawful about what they are doing. And the ethics depends on who's ox is being gored. For some folks, if one of these guys was a buddy, and he was passing them ammo at 'regular' prices while gouging other people, they wouldn't be callling him names. They'd just think he was a pretty sharp operator.
That's the point about the market.
In these days of interenet shopping you can buy from whoever you want, wherever you want.

OTOH, I was just thinking about the "good old days" when a buddy of mine closed his gun shop because he couldn't buy ammo for what Walmart was selling it for. And people were buying at Walmart because it was cheaper.
 

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I find it odd that Walmart hasn't raised their prices. From a business point of view it's kind of stupid they haven't. They could be getting $20+ a box with ease and still maintain long term sales. The bonus of their pricing is it may be the only chance this market has of coming back down. If big box stores jacked their prices the market would never come back down.

The internet sales on armslist and gunbroker are amusing to me. If people want to pay those prices I'm not faulting the sellers. If I was no longer able to score ammo on the cheap from time to time I'd just quit shooting until I could.
 
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I find it odd that Walmart hasn't raised their prices. From a business point of view it's kind of stupid they haven't. They could be getting $20+ a box with ease and still maintain long term sales. The bonus of their pricing is it may be the only chance this market has of coming back down. If big box stores jacked their prices the market would never come back down.

The internet sales on armslist and gunbroker are amusing to me. If people want to pay those prices I'm not faulting the sellers. If I was no longer able to score ammo on the cheap from time to time I'd just quit shooting until I could.
The amount of money to be made from ammo sales pales in insignificance next to the amount they spend on their advertising campaign about being the cheap place to shop. It is not worth the possiblility of somebody questioning their price on Oreos.
 

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The amount of money to be made from ammo sales pales in insignificance next to the amount they spend on their advertising campaign about being the cheap place to shop. It is not worth the possiblility of somebody questioning their price on Oreos.
I disagree. I don't think selling 9mm for $20 would hurt their image one bit. At this point in the game people would just take it.
 
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