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I know some of you have probably seen these 2 videos, but some of you may not have seen it.

I think there is some VERY GOOD lessons in these videos that may make you rethink your plan of defense. Especially the last few minutes of Part 2. Ed Mireles really has good advice about staying alive.

Part 1

Part 2
 

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We saw the "official" videos in the police academy shortly after it happened. The "hero" officer who took the bad guys has been to our academy, and the TDCJ named their academy in Beeville, TX in his honor.

A lot of people don't know that the final killer to go down took a perfectly mushroomed Winchester Silvertip JHP through the heart causing a lethal wound that literally destroyed his heart, but between the adrenalin and the oxygen in his blood, he still got off several more shots from his Mini-14. It was the 12 ga fired one handed by the hero agent that finally put him down that ended the mele'.
 

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I know some of you have probably seen these 2 videos, but some of you may not have seen it.

I think there is some VERY GOOD lessons in these videos that may make you rethink your plan of defense. Especially the last few minutes of Part 2. Ed Mireles really has good advice about staying alive.

Part 1
1986 Miami Shootout (Part 1) FBI Training Video "Firefight" - YouTube

Part 2
1986 Miami Shootout (Part 2) FBI Training Video Personal Reflections - YouTube

A lot of sweet mustaches in these videos.
 

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The "Training Films" tend to concentrate on what happened after the felony stop. They don't seem to place as much value on the lack of preparations on the part of the FBI as I think that they should. Why would people about to ram a car into another place their firearms on the seat of their car? Why would those who needed glasses not secure them prior to impact?

They knew that the men they were about to stop used rifles in the commission of the crimes. Yet, how many had anything besides a handgun when the stop took place?

Had the FBI agents actually used common sense when working out their plans, even on the fly, it's doubtful that their death toll would have been so high.

Instead, much has been made of the failure of a single bullet to achieve an instant stop. CYA at all costs has resulted in billions of dollars in research to "improve" ammunition, but the real reasons for the debacle have never been officially admitted to. A sad testament to agency folly at the cost of members lives.
 

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Howdy,

The "Training Films" tend to concentrate on what happened after the felony stop. They don't seem to place as much value on the lack of preparations on the part of the FBI as I think that they should. Why would people about to ram a car into another place their firearms on the seat of their car? Why would those who needed glasses not secure them prior to impact?

They knew that the men they were about to stop used rifles in the commission of the crimes. Yet, how many had anything besides a handgun when the stop took place?

Had the FBI agents actually used common sense when working out their plans, even on the fly, it's doubtful that their death toll would have been so high.

Instead, much has been made of the failure of a single bullet to achieve an instant stop. CYA at all costs has resulted in billions of dollars in research to "improve" ammunition, but the real reasons for the debacle have never been officially admitted to. A sad testament to agency folly at the cost of members lives.
+1!

The FBI agents F'ed up big time!

Even though I'm a hard core pistolero, if I'm in a gunfight, especially as a LEO, I want a short barrel select-fire weapon, M-16 w/ a 10 3/4" barrel or a MP-5 10mm would work, and several mags loaded with ball and HP/SP ammo.

Paul
 

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In my total armchair, after the fact, wasn't there opinion, yes there were some problems. Taking out your pistol and putting it on the seat as you are about to ram? Going up against long guns with pistols?

But one thing about the whole situation that you can't get away from. The agents didn't give up. Not on their job, not on each other. In the face of mortal danger, even after they had gotten shot up, they moved toward the threat. At times their tactics might not have been what I can sit here and approve of, but I can only applaud their courage.
 

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To add to Walkers post....this was 1986...27 years ago....if the public saw the Police etc armed with S/A rifles there would have been hell to pay! The glasses, the gun on the seat......that's how we learn folks! Sadly people died, but the thought probably never came up. One of the LEO's could have been wearing contacts and had them dislodged.
We learn by our mistakes! Ever locked your keys in the car, left the car window open before the sprinklers come on?
With the chaos and confusion that comes in a firefight, the LEO's could have had .75 caliber weapons....Ain't going to do ANY good if they do not hit!

Lets not be so quick to judge. LEOS from everywhere learned a lot from that incident. Including about the human spirit and courage.
 

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Gentlemen, in Vietnam we called this a "charley foxtrot". Sorry for the loss of life but if these are "special agents" what would have happened if they were ordinary agents? My fire team would have handled this with zero wounded or KIAs. Very poor techniques IMHO.
 
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