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This material was originally posted on forum.m1911.org by VagabondH

With his permission, I am going to quote it here because it is fascinating reading...

I went to a Friends of the NRA event in Miami last night and was fortunate enough to win a Kimber Custom II 1911 - going to pick it up today. Guess I'll have to start running down the Taurus! (NOT!) BTW Kimber brags on their site that they pioneered MIM small parts...go figure.

gottripletsNC said:
The problem with Taurus' 1911 at this point, is that it is still an infant in the 1911 market, and for the most part, the complaints versus the praises seem to be about even. Problems in the early days are the norm, when tooling up and starting manufacture of some things, but they need to pan out to little to none after a short time. ...
However, I do like the Taurus, and will one day, get one.
Interesting that you say that complaints and praise are about even - where are the bad comments coming from? On this board? Among folks you know? And do they actually OWN a PT1911? Have you heard any FTF complaints from owners in your group of friends? Certainly not from any PT1911 owners on this board.

I have yet to meet anyone FTF that has a bad word about one either. I would say my feedback from owners is all good. Met TWO more guys at the range Saturday that raved about how great they, and one of them was ordering a second gun as we spoke.

Somewhere, I have no doubt, there are unhappy owners of this, and maybe all, brands. I guess there will be some that swear AT it, but right now I'll swear BY it.

Also, as to MIM parts, I have no doubt that parts of ALL origin will fail. That isn't an indictment of the process. I had a weld in the clutch pedal assembly give out in my 1977 Dodge when it was new, but proper welding is still an acceptable manufacturing process. Springer, Kimber, RIA and Taurus and almost every other profitable manufacturer use the process for selected parts. If you don't want that part of the gun, well, it's a 1911 - you can easily "upgrade" it - if that's what you think it is.

I know what you meant as to "tight fit" and the original design. But manufacturing and usage changes. My Taurus is about the same fit as the new Kimber Custom II that I picked up last Friday. Guess they have the same tolerances, right or wrong...and if memory serves me right, my Colt Gold Cup was even tighter (if thats possible) when new. Right tools for the job at hand I guess. I wonder if anyone sells a 1911 with that original loose fit anymore..I've never looked specifically for that. Only seen it in vintage WWII pieces that I've handled (some "new" and others "well worn").

Anyway, shoot well!

The Kimber Custom II feature list is not the same as the Taurus feature list.

One magazine instead of two, a seven rounder. But you can add another, or 8 rounders if you prefer. Front strap / trigger guard is not checkered, but Kimber's enclosed price list says they'll do it for only $350. Safety isn't ambi - which for those of us in our "Right mind" is important - but again, you can add it. There might be others but I haven't thought that long about it.




I am going to have to replace the MSH on the Kimber - the stock one is a little recessed into the frame, and the corner of the frame digs into my palm when shooting it. See the top view and notice the MSH in relation to the frames. I like both guns, but the Taurus would be my choice as they come from the box. Haven't fired the PT1911 with the new grips yet. Had to dremel the wood around the ambi safety last night. Already reset the MSH pin on the Taurus seen in the picture.


Thought I'd share this: (and I know it's a sample of one unit in each brand, but aren't all reviews?) No group size in fractions of an inch, no chronograph numbers, just me and the guns...

I had a chance, through some very good fortune, to shoot my almost new PT1911 and a brand new Kimber Custom II (that I won!) last Saturday. The Kimber is a quality piece, and that's no surprise to anyone here, and I now realize that the PT1911 belongs in the same class, and that may surprise some. I was amazed that I actually preferred the PT1911 but for one or two comfort issues, not anything major. Both have smooth actions, solid feel and good features. The PT has more checkering on the frame (front grip and trigger guard - optional on the Kimber Custom II). I used some Golden Sabre HP and some S&B 230 gr FMJ, and some Remington 230 FMJ as fodder. I also fired 7 rounds of Winchester SXT 230 gr HP through each to check for feeding issues. I did not, and do not, use lead bullets, preferring the jacketed rounds. Just my preference.

I shot groups that were very nearly equal in size at varing distances (7 feet to 25 yards, neither gun posting an obviously better group at any distance ), both fed HP and FMJ ammo without a burp and the triggers are good on both. The sights on the Kimber placed my groups a little bit high, the PT placed them an almost equal amount low of POA, but even at 25 yards, both hit the 4" Shoot-N-See centers if I did my part.
Little Issues:
The only magazine I had any trouble with was the stock Kimber 7 rounder, and then only during reloading. The follower drifts forward and if you don't push it back you can't reload it, and there were some sharp edges. The MecGar I'd bought at a Gun Show was fine, but the easiest to handle and load was the Taurus 8 rounders that came with the PT1911 - and they all worked in both guns equally well with both HP and FMJ ammo. The grip on the Kimber has a rather sharp edge at the bottom of the MSH that was uncomfortable, but that's all the gripes I can think of for either gun.

The trigger on the Kimber is better but not by much, as are the sights, but again, not by much. Which will I carry? The Taurus. Why? The ambi-safety - I'm left handed and until I get an ambi for the Kimber (and swap out that sharp MSH) I'll carry the PT1911. They are so close - it's amazing.

Too bad there could never be a blindfold test with guns...DUH...but it'd be hard to tell them apart just shooting them.
Of course, I need to do more testing - LOTS more testing - so I'll keep it up and see if I can find any long term differences. *Sigh* Someone has to do it!;)

"Aim small miss small."


Alrighty then... While I am a bit disappointed in the Kimber, it only makes me appreciate the PT1911 more!




I had to work the right grip a little more than I expected, but it fits nice now. Can't wait to shoot it - the grips feel great!
Oh, yeah, the Custom II I almost forgot....
 

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Pretty... I compared a bunch of 1911's when I first got my PT1911. Biggest thing I found is that the Kimber Slide wouldn't fit on my PT1911, other then that basically everything else was interchangeable.

Just curious, what is the price paid for the Kimber?
 

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This guy won it as an NRA banquet... I don't get invited to those, so...
 

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Good right up sounds honest and to the point. I do love my PT1911 :) Mine has the same ALS grips so it looks the same :)
 

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Nice win!!some people are so lucky.. ;) ;) ;)Exellent observations on both guns.Ive had both and both are GREAT!!!Then again ive never really met a 1911 i didnt like lol :D :D :D
 

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I have the PT1911SS w/ALS grips and wouldn't swap it for any other 1911. That may sound stupid but it fires, extracts, ejects, and loads the next round every time and never a hiccup. It does what I want and capable of more. For $600 delivered, can't be beat. It puts the rounds where I want them without fail. What more can one ask for?!
 

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When comparing the 2 side by side they look like kissin cousins,just 1 cousin costs more.I have a couple to compare of the almost very same models,I like them all,Its a 1911,whats not to like.Although winning one must make a person feel great,Congrats,heres a pic of my small collection.



NO,the pink ones my wifes
 

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I found a pt1911 local for 400 only a year old and its hard as heck to not jump on it. Good Info.
 

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tjsjr said:
I found a pt1911 local for 400 only a year old and its hard as heck to not jump on it. Good Info.
The only hard part about that situation for me would be how I was going to tell my wife I spent another $400 on yet another gun.
 

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She said get it if I wanted it and it could be my christmas. ;) but then I'd have to resort to the CC for her to get something. ;(
 

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we own a grand raptor 2 http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/raptor/grand_raptor_II/
(rare as hen's teeth, almost impossible to find....ask me how i know) and 2 pt1911s and we have no problem with any of the 3

for what that's worth, they are all 3 great pistols with no failures outside of the first short break in period on the blue taurus, it had a few stovepipes.i believe i did a range report up here on that. the s/s taurus and the kimber have never had any fails at all.

over 500 rds thru each

kimber is a great 1911, taurus is right behind it

you've all seen pics of the taurus, here's the kimber. oh, and rottie would kill me if i didn't tell you, that's her kimber

http://www.tmcdee.net/pic/gr2-1911/gr201.jpg

http://www.tmcdee.net/pic/gr2-1911/gr203.jpg

http://www.tmcdee.net/pic/gr2-1911/gr204.jpg

http://www.tmcdee.net/pic/gr2-1911/gr205.jpg

http://www.tmcdee.net/pic/gr2-1911/gr206.jpg

http://www.tmcdee.net/pic/rottie_graptor2.jpg
 

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Hi everyone, long time, no speak and way too busy here lately. Yes, the Taurus PT1911 and the Kimber are both fine 1911's. The main thing is that you can't look at these as competition for each other. The Kimber is expensive, and I won't even try to gloss over that. But I love mine, and wouldn't trade it for anything. The Taurus is a fantastic value, very solid good shooter, good quality 1911. I wouldn't trade either of the two we have of the PT1911's either. The Taurus don't have all the "gingerbread" that my Grand Raptor does. But it isn't supposed to and doesn't hurt the checkbook nearly as bad to purchase as my Grand Raptor did. Bottom line, think thru what you are wanting. Pick the gun that best suits your needs and don't break the bank. I was fortunate to be able to make room for all three, and wouldn't get rid of any of them for any reason. Both Taurus and Kimber 1911's are very good guns!
 

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Thanks for sharing. I know quite a few Kimber guys that much prefer their gun to my lowly PT 1911 even though they have quite a few issues with their guns.

I personally have no complaints for Kimber or Taurus, but I guess I'm one of the minority.
 

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Hello everyone,

While I have little technical experience with 1911's, only Marine Corps use back in the 1980's, I can say that with 1911's it seems that you can't go wrong no matter what brand. While I own a S&W 1911PD commander, I have noticed that Taurus 1911's look like the best bang for your buck. I am considering one for home defense in the 5in model, just debating the railed or non-railed version. I got my S&W through an estate sale and paid half the price than a new one, that is why the S&W. As for prices, I would never pay un-Godly amounts of money for a gun, that's just me! A gun is for shooting and defense! The least expensive, reliable and accurate gun that I can get my hands on, is the best gun for me. Don't get me wrong, if the high end gun is your thing then more power to you, it's just not me that's all! Especially, if I can get a gun with all the same functions and reliability for half, or less, the price. Lastly, as I am back into guns now, I realize that 1911's can be upgraded completely, so buy a good quality, least expensive one, and upgrade it with the parts you want, then you now have a gun with the quality of the more expensive ones for much, much less. Walla, more gun for the buck!

Cheers,
 
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