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Discussion Starter #1
The m-441 with three inch barrel shoots pretty good groups first time out to the local range.



However, some of my powders used were extremely filthy dirty, along with the alox lube on some bullets...bad koo koo.

These are some of the better ones...shot with cleaner burning powders.

TB C45




Although the Unique was one of the dirty burning powders, it shot very well as usual.

The Clay's and Trail Boss were the cleanest burning that day, actually cleaned out the gun's barrel from the previous dirty powders shot through it.

TB C45
 

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Thanks for the range report TB C45! I'll be testing some new bullets and loads with my 441 this weekend, can't post pics though. ::)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks to the staff at Taurus Armed.net, especially Steelheart. You da man...you fixed my boo boo not being able to post on the site.

Treg, good luck on your 441 shoot this weekend, you could give us writtten group report...even if you have no pictures. ;D

Man, I really hate them dirty powders that soot up my guns, stuff like Bullseye, Unique, and bunch of others I've got in my powder box.

It also helps to not use crappy Alox lube on your bullets, use some modern harder lube like the red stuff or blue stuff.

BTW, the bottom target showing the Hornady powder coated HB bullets really burn clean through your gun's innerds. If you tilt your head to the left you'd see I was trying to make the Zorro Z mark but ran out of boolits. ;D

If you stick to Hodgdon's Clays, it seems to be the cleanest, then Titegroup, Universal is pretty clean but seems to not burn completely...always some unburned residue...use maximum loads with that powder and you might get total burning.

Another new powder is the IMR Trail Boss, this stuff is the cat's meow, it really cleans up a dirty barrel and leaves it that way...good powder. But you may have to tinker with it to find an accurate load...I'm still tinkering.

They say AA No. 5 is a good clean burning powder.

Anyone else out there recomend good clean burnners.

TB C45
 

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Tried out some of the 250 gr. Kieth bullets from Black River Bullets today. Went from 6.7 to 7.9 grains of Univesal in .3 gr increments. 7.3 grains was most accurate with a group just under 2 3/4" at 40 yards. *These loads are above the recommended load by the powder manufacturer, proceed at your own risk.*
I may try to fine tune this load further but the answer may lie in getting bullets sized a little larger. Anyway, this is a suitable deer load even if it isn't improved on this year.
TB C 45 have you measured your cylinder throats?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Treg, you are shooting very good groups there. I only shoot at about 15 to 20 yard range...can't see good enough to try any further. But my bullseye targets are only 4 inch in diameter. :)

You are right about thinking you may need bigger bullet diameters, the Taurus is notorious for oversized cylinder throats of about .434 diameter...and the barrel rifling is only .429 diameter.

The best I can do with this situation is to size my bullets to .431 diameter for the present, and then eventually get them bumped up to .432 diameter.

I also find that hollow basing softer cast bullets helps to expand the bullets base walls at about 1/4 of an inch depth...kind of a cone shape depth with the walls thickness about 3/16th of an inch. But I stippulate a warning here that this is for only moderate reloads that do not exceed 900 fps velocity.

Any faster I would recomend bumping a slight dimple in the harder cast bullets base. I've also done this with some older bullets that were .429 dia. with Lyman brass gas checks, and dimple bumped them up to .431 diameter...that should help them shoot better in the oversized cylinder throats...I hope. (all this is done with swaging dies)

Good luck in shooting the Taurus 441, its a great revolver.

TB C45
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Treg!

Was getting ready to load some of your good shooten 7.3 grains of Universal Hodgdon powder in my .44 special brass to be shot in a model 441 Taurus.

But holy cow, in checking the manuals your 7.3 grains is over maximum recomended which is 6.5 grains.

The maximum 6.5 grains of Universal will push the 250 grain cast bullet with a GC to 920 fps velocity.

I would think the 7.3 grains you suggested and shot in your gun would be in the lower magnum class loads???

What was the recoil like when you shot that load...had to be pretty stiff.

I usually never go over 850 fps velocity to be sure the gun won't get hurt...or me. ;D

TB C45
 

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i hope this works my latest 44 special a cimarron model p 4 3/4".pictured also is a blackhawk 357mag 4 5/8"barrel,may become a 44 special down the road
when and if funds become available.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
50/50, Last night, I loaded some test rounds with 12.5 grains of AA 5744. If I remember right it pushes a moderate 730 fps which is plinking load. That powder is small gain but hard as diamonds. ;D

You like .44 specail like myself...only have three here now. ;) You can never have too many...2nd and 3rd model S&W and the Taurus.

TB C45
 

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yes I love the way my 431 shoots.I just got it and haven't done much load development this group is factorys 5 200grn fed SWCHP and 5 200grn blazer golddots.the golddots are the fliers,my fault not theirs.I started loading HS6 with 240 rainiers 7.5grns but it felt light I'm going to up it to the max of 8.0grns.I'll update with how that load shoots.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hope you don't mind, mavracer. shrunk your fine target work and revolver down to seeable size.

Wish I had one of them factory Fed 200 grain SWCHP cartridges of yours, I'd pull the bullet and try and figure out what brand of powder they use.

BTW, when you use those factory cartridges how did your barrel look afterwards...did they leave it clean.

TB C 45

 

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mavracer,nice gun and some pretty good shootin.
i was eyeballin a thunder ranch last nite,and i debated is it worth another winter in the doghouse.darn just something about them 44s.
 

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thanks I can't figure out how to get my pics on this sight down to size.yes the fed load is a good one its clean powder whatever they use.my new HS6 load is as accurate but the gun shoots 240s high.
 

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Yes, TBC45 thanks for the reminder, I put a disclaimer in that post as those loads are over the recommended loads. I did a lot of research before using them. They are considered a "Catagory Two" load, under 22,000 psi, for strong post-war guns. A great article is in the August - September 2005 Handloader magazine by Brian Pearce.
BTW, I miked my throats last night and they are .435! Guess I get to do a little experimenting now with some larger bullets.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Treg. Yes, my cylinder throats are about .434 diameter. I was told this before I bought the gun from the seller.

I have a 2nd model S&W .44 spl. that has simular problems, spits burnt powder residue and lead back under the frames top strap and down onto the high part between the cylinder flutes. (However, my model 441 does not do that)

I'm hoping to try some of these bigger bullets I'm forming up to use in both revolvers...they will be .432 diameter, but no larger as doubt anything larger will seat in the brass case and chamber in the gun's cylinder.

Another thing a person can do is to hollow base lead cast bullets 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch deep...but you should retain a fairly thick wall in that cavity and not exceed 900 fps velocity to be on the safe side.

Not everyone is able to hollow base their bullets, though I've got lots of bullet swaging equipment that enables me to HP or HB said bullets as I see fit.


mavracer, the way I do my photos is shrink them down in my computer and set them in a file, then use a photo server site to find them in my browser, then just copy and paste at the forum site you want them to be shown in. I use Photobucket as it is a free service.

I like HS-6 powder as well, it generates lower pressures and gives good velocity in return.

Winter season is starting to show its bite up here, won't be able to get to the range much longer...getting to cold.

All, enjoy your .44s.

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Added next day...my .432 diameter sizing die and lube die arrived and it looks very good fit in the cylinder throats. Bullets are ready to bump up on ignition of cartridge, should be good on my next trip to range.

Didn't think I'd get away with this...bumping these .4335 bullets up that big and still having them seat in the brass that would still chamber in the model 441 cylinder...but it does.

==========================================================

TB C45
 

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Discussion Starter #18
50/50, do they make the Cimarron .44 spl. in 3 inch barrel with ejector rod?

I need another gun like I need to be able to shoot what I've got. ;D

But its been a long time since I had a SA. Last time was around 1956 while stationed at NAS North Island, San Diego. Bought myself a Great Western .22 LR SA, it was a heavy muther...but I like to practice the fast draw back then.

They was always trying to bust our chops with surprise locker inspections without advance notice, trying to lay a Captain's Mast on us poor swabbies for having illegal items in our lockers...like Guns, booze, dope, loose ladies, or anything else they didn't think we ought to have in there. ;D

Well, I beat that rap by hiding my Great Wester in an overhead aircondition duct vent in a Hanger office.

The Great Western made so many trips to the desert east of San Diego, and so many bricks of .22 LR went through it the cylinder pin became loose and the cylinder would rattle when you shook the gun in your hand. There is 500 rounds in a brick, at least 10 bricks went through that old iron.

Maybe I'll get silly and get me another SA...in .44 special of course.

TB C45
 

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Mavracer and Tracker Backer you guys are making me jealous. I've wanted one of those Taurus 3" .44spl's for years. A few years ago I won an auction for a 3" stainless 431 but then had car trouble and negotiated with the seller to cancel the auction. No problem, every online site where I looked there were about a dozen 431s and 441s for about $250. Today, I rarely find one at all and when I do they are $350-450. I really kick myself for cancelling that auction (I should have found a way to pay for that car repair, for a car I haven't owned in several years now, AND the gun) :bang:
 

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Hey..... TB...very nice groups...good shooting ;)

that is another one of those dadgum 44s ...How does a person hold onto those wicked little guns :).....


Oh Yea..thanks for that info on how to put pics on here...needed that
 
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