[53rdcard]

With just 1 day to go before Defense Distributed is able to post the plans for 3d printing guns online, 8 states are trying to block the move, or have moved to block / ban access to the site within the state.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cody-w...ss-from-pennsylvania-to-3d-downloadable-guns/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/states...tion-to-block-blueprints-for-3d-printed-guns/

 

[GhostHorse]

Well this legal fight will be interesting.

 

[glenwolde]

Good luck with that. The First Amendment is a very high bar. I believe that's the real reason the Justice Dept. settled their case. They realized they'd never win. You can make the activity illegal, but not writing about it.

Why this? Why not go after the 80% Lowers and what not?

 

[whichfinger]

Good luck with that. The First Amendment is a very high bar. I believe that's the real reason the Justice Dept. settled their case. They realized they'd never win. You can make the activity illegal, but not writing about it.

Why this? Why not go after the 80% Lowers and what not?

Because they're ignorant. They don't know about 80% lowers or the law regarding individuals making a gun for personal use. As soon as someone points the law out to them they'll start hyperventilating over this new "threat."

 

[rago]

what is funny , has anyone checked the price of a 3D printer.

 

[53rdcard]

Why this? Why not go after the 80% Lowers and what not?

I think it is because they dont understand the technology involved in this, they hear 3d printer and think any $200 printer can churn out untraceable, undetectable guns in mass, so this puts the firearm outside of the control the libs love, and they fear anything they cant control or dont understand. When the reality is, you need a very high end printer to pull this off, the smallest ones start at $1300, that size wont be able to print even the smallest guns, to get one that can print something like a AR size your looking at $5000+ granted the technology is ever improving and the price will come down over the next few years, as well as the ability to print metal is already a reality, but again those printers are very, very expensive. To make a gun that wont blow up in your hand you need a laser 3d printer that uses a liquid, or powder, not the kind that melts a spool of plastic filament and forms things using it.

They also, just like guns, have zero idea of what goes into using a 3d printer, they probably think its like a paper printer, hit print and out comes a gun, it isnt that easy, not saying someone in the underworld couldnt figure it out, but it is well beyond the capacity of your average thug, either because it is to much work for to little reward, or, to complex for them to figure out, the end result is the same. And the end result doesnt have the longevity of a metal gun, no matter what you print one out of, it wont stand up to much firing before it cracks and becomes unsafe. I will also grant that if all you want is one or two shots in a highly undetectable gun, it would fit that bill to perfection, but even still, the material it uses to print is not hard enough to use as a firing pin, so you would have to have some metal parts in it no matter what. you might be able to get away without a spring, a firing pin might be all you need other then ammo, but it will be required. So passing a metal detector with a working 3d printed gun is all but impossible.

But gun control groups just see, 3d printed gun, and freak out, just like they do for any gun, never taking the time to learn anything about what they are afraid of. Personally a cnc mill like the one defense distributed sells, or you can find elsewhere for even cheaper as chinese knockoffs, is a far greater threat, with it you can mill ar lowers, and 1911 frames, allowing you to assemble fully functional metal guns without any trail they exist. Making me wonder how long till home cnc milling machines have to be registered with the government, and have a chip in them to log what was made. like the gov was talking about doing to 3d printers, at least before the last election.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I'm very pro-gun but I don't like the idea that anybody can print a real functional firearm. It's just a way that any Joe Schmoe can circumvent a background check. I know background checks aren't perfect, but they're one way to possibly stop some wack job from buying a gun. I feel the same about 80% lowers. I like the idea because, for me as a law-abiding citizen, I can pretty much make my own gun from parts shipped to me door. The problem is so can somebody with a grudge and wants to do some damage.

 

[NativeTexan]

I needs me one of them 3D printers. Screw a buncha background checks!

 

[Cariwine]

Much ado about nothing.

 

[1942bull]

I think it amount to 8 State AGs wanting to gain politacal capital. The DOJ did the right thing to settle the matter. There were no violations of firearms laws. It is a speech issue only. The AGs are trying to make it a 2A issue coupled with a public safety issue. the argument will probably be something like this. 2A only relays to the right to bear arms. It does not provide the right to manufacture arms. 3D printing could result in arms manufacturing once the gun plans are published. That claim would be accompanied with a claim that if the plans are published it could lead to illegal manufactureing of guns. Therefore the protection clause of 14A should be used to bar the publication to assure public safety.

Well I am not a judge, but if I were and got this case it would be dismissed as legal fantasy on the part of the Plaintiff.

 

[NativeTexan]

This print-a-gun thing reminds me of how the antis freaked out when the Glock ...OMG IT'S PLASTIC!...came along in the 80s. Yeah, it'll pass through a metal detector, RIIIIGHT! Well, it might pass through a TSA check, dumb as they are. Heck, a ma deuce would likely pass a TSA check.

 

[bobbojama]

You can affordably print some parts for an AR, but to do the really durable stuff, you need one of them Half Million dollar plus jobs... The print setup and specs for the single use plastic guns are out there, but most are good for a single shot and then the trash. I can build a zip gun out of pipe and other stuff around the garage faster then a plastic 3D printer can and it will stand many firings. Give me a cheapo lathe and mill from harbor freight and look out... 3D printed Plastic guns and parts are much to do about nothing.... Let the libs run about with their hair on fire...

 

[Bellows1]

I'm very pro-gun but I don't like the idea that anybody can print a real functional firearm. It's just a way that any Joe Schmoe can circumvent a background check. I know background checks aren't perfect, but they're one way to possibly stop some wack job from buying a gun. I feel the same about 80% lowers. I like the idea because, for me as a law-abiding citizen, I can pretty much make my own gun from parts shipped to me door. The problem is so can somebody with a grudge and wants to do some damage.

This particular ruling in no way affect anyone's ability to 3d print a firearm, this only allows the program to be downloaded on the internet. Anyone with a 3d printer, can make their own program to make firearms.

While I agree with you for the need to keep firearms outta the hands of bad guys, 80% and 3d printed guns is not the easiest way to obtain them. Once we go down the road of keeping guns out of the wrong hands, we need to look at what that entails...

It means 100% of every gun sale goes through a FFL. Any inherited gun goes through a FFL. Any stolen gun will need to go through a FFL...


We'll also need to make sure there are no stolen guns, cause they probably won't go through a FFL like they're suppose to . That would require gun security, safes in the home and vehicles, maybe locks on holsters. It's a rabbit hole, everything we try that doesn't work will get new ideas to try. When that doesn't work, we get new ideas, then more and more, until we are the US of Kalifornia.

 

[ICUKev]

I thought it was very interesting that MSM stressed "untraceable" and "downloadable AR15" alot. Then they mentioned terrorists. All the buzz words people like. My thoughts are people have been removing serial numbers for years or just buying stolen ones so what does it matter if it's "untraceable"? As far as terrorists, didn't we get busted loosing guns south of the border (operation fast n furious)? Would it matter less if they purchased legally or stole them? All about misdirection of the misinformed. Ok, I'm down off soapbox.

 

[NativeTexan]

I would imagine that a 3D gun is just a matter of formatting the output. That can be easily learned assuming you know programming. You can even learn whatever programming language they use, not that tough. I learned Fortran and COBOL in school, taught myself BASIC which is very similar, but simpler to Fortran. My wife is fluent in all the Cs to C++, Python, bunch of other stuff. I could likely get it done without the download, but it'd take me a while and I'm a *******, not a geek. My wife's a geek, though, that would help.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

This particular ruling in no way affect anyone's ability to 3d print a firearm, this only allows the program to be downloaded on the internet. Anyone with a 3d printer, can make their own program to make firearms.

While I agree with you for the need to keep firearms outta the hands of bad guys, 80% and 3d printed guns is not the easiest way to obtain them. Once we go down the road of keeping guns out of the wrong hands, we need to look at what that entails...

It means 100% of every gun sale goes through a FFL. Any inherited gun goes through a FFL. Any stolen gun will need to go through a FFL...


We'll also need to make sure there are no stolen guns, cause they probably won't go through a FFL like they're suppose to . That would require gun security, safes in the home and vehicles, maybe locks on holsters. It's a rabbit hole, everything we try that doesn't work will get new ideas to try. When that doesn't work, we get new ideas, then more and more, until we are the US of Kalifornia.

I know and understand both sides of the story but a gut feeling just tells me the availability to the masses of such a program is no bueno. I agree there are easier ways to get a hold of a firearm but none so easy to not leave a trail of some kind be it street sales or legit FFL sales.

Again, I don't have much in the way of an argument. I have an admittedly weak argument against it but I just have to go with my gut.

 

[53rdcard]

It isnt terribly difficult to learn to use a 3d printer, heck i have 2 and use them allot, but to me, this isnt something your average person who wants to use a gun to kill is ever going to use, at worst this is going to be a very specific target weapon. these things even on the best printers with the best material, just cant take repeated use, maybe 10 shots if you are really lucky, even the AR lowers that you can print on a printer like mine, would eventually break down, you wouldn't get to a magazine change. And it would require all of the business parts to be traditional metal.

And again, already traditional methods of firearms manufacture that use standardized metalworking equipment, are faster, and produce a far stronger end product. the same files that allow a 3d printer to make a print, will also allow a cnc mill to make the same parts out of metal.

And none of that will ever beat the speed and ease of finding a gun off the standard market for the very people who would use a printer or cnc machine to circumvent the law

 

[kschilk]

If they were truly concerned about people being able to print things that are a threat to public safety and national security...:dry:...they'd be goin' after things like the New York Times, L.A. Times, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post, Time Magazine, etc.

 

[paulky_2000]

Meh....

 

[bjrjar]

I would imagine that a 3D gun is just a matter of formatting the output. That can be easily learned assuming you know programming. You can even learn whatever programming language they use, not that tough. I learned Fortran and COBOL in school, taught myself BASIC which is very similar, but simpler to Fortran. My wife is fluent in all the Cs to C++, Python, bunch of other stuff. I could likely get it done without the download, but it'd take me a while and I'm a *******, not a geek. My wife's a geek, though, that would help.

I have a 3D printer. A gift from my son. I’ve printed a bunch of stuff. A couple fancy chess sets for my kids. A mounting plate for my Ring doorbell that keeps it flat on my stucco wall so its contacts are more dependable, etc. it ain’t fast, but you don’t really need any programming skills, what you need are CAD skills, patience, and perseverance. There’s nothing quick about it. I have to admit, if I was trying out a printed gun, I’d tie it to a tree and pull the trigger with a long string.

Bob


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