Taurus Firearm Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Attention Taurus USA Corporate (marketing, sales, customer service): Heine 2-dot sights as ONLY std. (no extra cost) sights not popular nor wise.

As an otherwise happy owner of two Taurus semi-autos (PT111 and 24/7), I and many others, would dearly love to see different set of sights readily available (off-the-shelf, in stock, no extra cost) from Taurus factory and distribution.

Just take a look at the numerous posts on this forum regarding changing out and modifying the Heine 2-dot sights.

Yes, it IS possible/feasible to change out the Heine 2-dot sights - BUT, at extra cost. Many of us buy Taurus for VALUE (cost vs. quality/features) and the additional the cost of changing out the Heine 2-dots makes some consider slightly higher priced competitive offerings (such as the Springfield XD, CZ equivalents, etc.).

(I am now considering the purchase of a polymer sub-compact .40 or .45 semi-auto, and the Springfield XD SC and the CZ 2075 RAMI-P are edging out the Taurus equivalents - mainly due to the sights).

Also, the like/dislike and preference/avoidance of Heine 2-dots can be subjective and can be overcome, to some extent, with practice. BUT, I and many others, own many pistols with the much more common 3-dot sights and prefer to practice, train, and familiarize with a compatible or similar set of sights so that in quick-react situations the sighting method and picture are a somewhat automatic reflex response. (I'd guess that many more customers purchase PT, MilPro, and 24/7 models for defense purposes rather than target-only purposes; quick react/response can be crucial in defense situations.)

Another lesser consideration is the Taurus design choice of sight dovetail size and configuration on the PT, MilPro and 24/7 current models. Employing a more common or more standard dovetail design would have enabled a much wider choice (and likely more economical) choice of after-market and 3rd-party replacement sights.

To paraphrase a current TV advertisement (for a headache remedy): I LOVE YOUR PRODUCT, BUT HATE YOUR SIGHTS.

Comments from other owners of Taurus pistols with Heine 2-dot sights are welcome here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
I despise the 2 dot sights on my 24/7 Pro. Ive been looking into having them changed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Add me. I'm sure there is contract between taurus and heinie so this probably will do no good. I can't believe the 1911 comes with these sights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Try painting the front sight( the part of the sight you see) with white model paint primer and dot the fron sight hole with orange paint using a toothpick it does wonder for your groups.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
It's not about dots or colors for me. You have to cover your target. I want to be able to see the exact point of impact before and during the trigger pull. They are good enough to hit a silhouette but I can't group tight with them. I don't know why they would make sight design different from every other, just to be unique? Why re-invent the wheel? I'm not going to get rid of my gun but had I known before I bought it.......I may have made another choice.

The only solution is pay half the value of the gun for new sights or work on the dove tails to change them? I think it's ridiculous. Next step is filing the front sight, if that doesn't work I'll try one of the mods in the smithing section. I'm sure in given time there will be more viable solutions as manufacturers pick up on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
'tain't about [target] "groups" or "problem".

Yes, with a moderate amount of practice I (and I assume others) can get reasonable accuracy from Heine 2-dots.

HOWEVER, for those of us who concealed carry (and are so licensed) and have a variety of handguns (I currently have seven and have owned over fifteen) there is an over-riding consideration: self-defense and many home defense situations happen almost instantaneously and defensive reactions are almost automatic or reflex - it takes lotsa practice to get to a reflex-response level. (Target shooters and weekend plinkers do not have this consideration).

My preferred carry guns have 3-dot sights (my Taurus 24/7 PRO with Heine 2-dots is a bit large for concealed carry for me, although some do; my PT111 is an earlier 3-dot model). As I consider new carry and self-defense handguns, I do not like the idea of having a new and unique (e.g. 2-dot) sight-picture and aiming method as part of a life-threatening self-defense scenario.

You are kidding yourself if you think a draw-assume stance-aim-fire sequence that takes over 2-seconds is a realistic scenario; have someone time you at your next range practice. Have someone run towards you while you try to draw (a FAKE weapon) when the assailant is at 25 feet from you - most won't even get to "aim", much less "fire" (this is a std. NRA CC exercise).

SO.....a Taurus semi-auto compact (e.g. Millenium PRO series) with Heine 2-dots is not something I wish to invest in for concealed carry OR self-defense AND I do not wish to expend the extra bucks to change out the sights. There are too many attractive alternatives (e.g. Springfield, CZ, etc.) to Taurus for that purpose in the same general price range.

(Besides, I just plain don't like the 2-dots for ANY purpose - my personal bias, shared by many others).

How many major firearms manufacturers (other than Taurus) offer ONLY a 2-dot sight system as standard on their handguns ???

I've been a marketing executive (Fortune 200 computer corporation) and can tell you if the world takes a right turn and someone with less than majority market-share takes a left turn (e.g. Taurus), the majority of the buyers of the world will continue right.

Taurus has learned a LOT about design and manufacturing, but has yet some to learn about marketing (such as making significant penetration of the huge military and law enforcement markets).

This post is NOT about "why I love/hate 2-dots"; it is about why not use some common sense and give your customers what they want and need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
NewGuy said:
It's not about dots or colors for me. You have to cover your target. I want to be able to see the exact point of impact before and during the trigger pull.
That about sums it up for me right there. I've only been a pistol owner for a year, so I've got a lot to learn about shooting but man those Heine sights on my pt140 are almost impossible for me to adjust to.

I think the reason the rear sight says "Heine" is just to let you know that they shoot like ass....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
You are kidding yourself if you think a draw-assume stance-aim-fire sequence that takes over 2-seconds is a realistic scenario; have someone time you at your next range practice. Have someone run towards you while you try to draw (a FAKE weapon) when the assailant is at 25 feet from you - most won't even get to "aim", much less "fire" (this is a std. NRA CC exercise).
Two points: if he's running at me, he's not (accurately) shooting at me and second, I'm unllikely to stand there a wait for him, even instinctively. But I've had martial arts training.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
876 Posts
From shorter distances (7 yards & less), I find myself either using the front sight only, or watching the target to see where my hits are. Try it. I figure in a SD situation I won't have time to line up a clear two or three dot sight picture.

tman
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
I am with everyone that can't stand the Heine sights. Now, I have gotten proficient with mine but that is with many many rounds and lots of adjustment however I just don't like the results. I love Taurus guns. I have had many. They have yet to fail me. With that being said, I am not considering buying a Taurus gun with these sights in the future because of these sights. I will be buying a 1911 in a couple weeks and I love the PT1911 but hate the sights. There are comparable guns out there for a few bucks more.
I shoot at least once a week and most folks at the range who have Heine sighted guns hate them.
I hope Taurus at least gives us an option for these sights because as I have said, I love Taurus guns.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
32,497 Posts
As I have posted many times where things on Taurus guns were liked or disliked, a write in campaign or one by telephone by interested parties can accomplish a lot. If you tell them they will listen. It may take some time. All things like this do to a certain extent. Change cannot happen without people's participation. If a well thought out call or letter stating tactfully why,how, and when the change should take place, then it will get consideration.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
maybe someone who is computer savvy can start a petition websight, if we get some signatures, something might happen, i've posted previously what i did with my heine sights, i filed the front sights on both my guns and blacked everything out w/ apaint marker
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Well, I figure I can't wait years until they put our new sites so I bought a Sistema Colt 1911 in 80% condition today. ;D Gave $500 for it but it was worth it. No MIM, all steel and interchangeable parts with the USGI version. Best I can tell it was manufactured in 1956. I'll post pics when I get some new batteries for my camera.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Qwiksdraw & Hershey:

If Taurus USA is not competent enough to monitor this website and a few others like it, then that is but yet one more symptom of their marketing deficiencies. (Again: I love their products, hate their sights; their marketing is deficient but not inept).

On the Taurus website there is no email address listing for customers to contact them (yet another minor boo-boo). I do not wish to contact a low-level customer service person. The issues stated need to be addressed by Taurus USA upper management.

I'm retired now and prefer to spend my time fishing, shootin', and with family and friends; I leave campaigns to others.

(I still love Taurus, but they are losing sales from me and others).
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
32,497 Posts
Then write letters to them folks. Address it to upper management. I called customer service and they gave me the name of their computer head just a few months ago. That became academic when this place became started. Just because we have web sites doesn't mean that gun companies as a whole monitor web sites. Feed back from the public is usually through letters and telephone calls. Granted the sight problem should be considered by them, but we also have fixes for that or can do something constructive and do things like calling or letter writing until and if they get e-mail. The rest is immaterial and counter productive.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
32,497 Posts
Just visited a few web sites for the gun companies. Ruger, Beretta, and Glock have no e-mail addresses. So not everyone has them folks. Looks like you'll have to protest mightily about them also. ;D There are a few others that do not have e-mail to the customers as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Qwiks:

You are on the ball; I REALLY appreciate your proactive involvement as moderator (on this and other post I have tracked).

Yup, by all means folks contact TaurusUSA by phone, mail, email, etc.

(I also own a KelTec and the KelTec upper mgmt. are active participants in the the equivalent KelTec websites; granted: KelTec is a MUCH smaller organization than Taurus).

I still "heart" Taurus, despite their hideous sights (but they'll lose my future semi-auto business until that changes).
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top