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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just picked up a new PT1911. FMJ ammo feeds without a problem. However, my standard self defense cartridges, Winchester Ranger T, will not feed at all. I can't even chamber the first round.

Does anyone know of a good SD round that will feed. Besides the Rangers, I like Speer Gold Dots, but don't have any on hand in .45. I imagine the Cor-Bon Powerball rounds would feed but they are almost a buck and a half a round.

Thanks!
 

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The Powerball is expensive but it should work. I did a quick check and found some PB less than $1 per but it was back ordered until mid Aug.

Another option is Federal's EFMJ (Expanding Full Metal Jacket). Its the same principal as the PB but might be cheaper and easier to find.

Federal's Hydra-shok might be more feed friendly but until you try it in your gun. Oh, get the 230gr not the 165 gr load. The 165 is the Personal Defense load and it didn't do real good in testing. Personally I'd rather use WWB 230gr JHP than the 165. The 230gr was my social load when I was using a 45.

Beyond these, any premium ammo should work but as you know it MUST be reliable in your gun. The WWB JHP's are my designated back-up social load for me. They're cheap enough to run a 50rd bos through without worry about the price and I can get them locally.

Steelheart
 

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Welcome to the world of 1911s. That's why I rid myself of 'em 15 years ago. Most hollow points will give you fits. Something with a rounded profile and a long OAL is what to look for. Been there, done that, LOL!
 

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More and more I feel that I got lucky with mine. It ate everything I fed it. However, I didn't stray from the 230gr family but I came across a small quantity of assorted JHP's and it didn't care what it ate.

Steelheart
 

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My Pt1911 has been 100% with all HP I tried which includes the Taurus copper, Golden Saber, Federal HST, Remington bulk pack from Wal-Mart as well as the Winchester from Wal-Mart, All the HP feed with out a problem. I run about 200 through just to make sure they are going to be reliable
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This weekend I took the PT1911 out to break it in. ;D After 200 rounds of WWB FMJ, I tried the Ranger ammo again. Now, the the pistol ate a box of 50 Ranger T rounds without any problems. I need to order some more and run a couple of hundred rounds through before I start carrying it.

Thanks for all of your comments.
 

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NativeTexan said:
Welcome to the world of 1911s. That's why I rid myself of 'em 15 years ago. Most hollow points will give you fits. Something with a rounded profile and a long OAL is what to look for. Been there, done that, LOL!
true to a point. again, good friend here mrnuke7571 had a pt-1911 and honestly...never had a problem with ANY ammo, hollow points(i think he tried six different types at the range once, all went right through) or ball. pretty sure he used federal hydra shock when he had the pt1911.
 

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Any quality 1911 usually needs a little break in. I'll run 500 rounds of ball through the gun, which takes no time at all, cleaning when needed, and have not had any problems. If there is an issue with the gun, this will find it. IRISH
 

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Well, call me old fashioned but do you really need HP in a .45? Honestly GIs for 75 years were stuck with hardball and it suited them just fine. Yes I have hydrashoks for my glock 30 but to be honest they just stay in the box. .45 acp doesn't have that tendency to overpenetrate like the 9mm does. Also the military is going back to a .45 and they will have to use hardball with whatever pistol they choose. I don't honestly think its a sin to use hardball in a .45, sure hollowpoints are keen, but that old slug, like the .45 long colt lead slug is a manstopper.
 

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Actually for ethical and moral reasons JHPs would be a good idea.

The same sedate ammo speed thing was brought up about the .38 Special. Both calibers have enough cases,even recent ones, where attackers were hit in the body and there was enough velocity and energy to go through other barriers after leaving the criminal's body and then went on to strike another human. Dead or gravely hurt doesn't cut it in the real world. Not if you value life. " Someone got hurt or killed.Hey.Stuff happens", is not acceptable to the norm out there.

Less likely to happen with a JHP though there may be circumstances where the hollowpoint may get clogged with cloth or debris. That's an exception and not the standard.

JHPs have been designed to deform or expand at speeds of approximately 680 to about 720 feet per second. Chuck Karwan, Dr. Topper,Sanow& Marshall, and Mas Ayoob, as well as many other accredited writers and teachers have documented this over the decades time and time again.

JHP expansion means a larger area of flesh disruption and organ function. This means there's less reason to have to shoot the perp many more times with something that doesn't expand. More humane for the receiver and for others since less shots are likely to be needed.

Flesh is elastic and snaps back together causing plenty of area to not bleed or be disrupted. JHPs disrupt more area, hence more trauma to help stop an attacker. And the idea is to stop the hostilities. Not kill. That of course may be a result though.

Take the favorite caliber and place it next to your chest. Kinda puny compared to the whole of the human body or that area in general. These need all the help they can get. JHPs offer this. Yes, I know. JHPs dont' always expand. Most of the time they do. Granted expansion is rarely like in the adverts or gun magazine pics.

Then there's the fact that handguns are not powerful at all. Rifles and shotguns do a much better job in those departments. So do crew served weapons and bigger.

Handguns are carried for convience. Weight,size,shape, and other factors make the handgun to be carried when the other more powerful weapons cannot.

History is full of even the failures of the .45 Colt or other calibers. Not going to start a caliber war here. There's all kinds of anecdotal stories and evidence that go on forever for all the calibers.

Suffice to say the history abounds with fanatical enemies who were not and will not be impressed by caliber or hitting power of handguns. Mahdists, Jihadists,Fuzzie Wuzzies,
Zulus, Japanese WWII troops, Chinese troops(Korean War), and a host of other recorded peoples were not impressed with handgun or rifle fire of any kind. They were able to stay up and running in way to many occurences,taking many rounds of rifle/pistol fire/shotgun fire, and going on to kill or gravely hurt many others before expiring. While these are fanatical attackers the same can and does happen, all to frequently with criminals for a plethora of reasons.

Adrenaline dump, hard core drugs, alcohol, or a "man on a mission" mindset are all reasons an attacker can be hard or near impossible to stop. There might even be a combination of all the above can enter into the equation on a case by case basis.

Even our troops are telling of terrorists who take many .223 rounds and keep coming.

We can not know the mindset or all the varibles in each case. Attacker may take a scratch, go into shock and even die. Or go on to do major damage. Matix and Plaxco of the Miami Massacre infamy come to mind.

So it behooves one to have the proper ammo to humanely stop an attack that does a good job of limiting possible over penetration for ethical and moral purposes.

People who do not believe in the sanctity of life and protect it should not be carrying guns.

There are properly designed JHPs that give enough penetration of a body under just about all circumstances. That's what they were designed in part to do. Newer JHPs of the last few decades stay together in one piece and penetrate further and wound more area than earlier generations of JHP. Proper ammo for the circumstances at hand on a case by case basis.

Common sense and our consciences tell us to educate ourselves on what each type,brand,or kind of ammo we will use and what it will really do. Then make an informed decision. Our lives and those of others depend on it.

For those who go with ball ammo, this is not a condemnation of you. Just be aware of possible consequences of what the results can or will be. You cannot know how,when,where, under what circumstances, and the results of an actual attack and what it's aftermath will be. We think we might know, but cannot say with any certainty what. We cannot see or predict the future.

Plan, we can do for most circumstances. The rest.........well....?

Crystal ball is in for it's 100,000 picture overhaul and Tarot cards have too much ketchup on them, and the Amazing 8 ball is at the cleaners. :D :)
 

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Yeah I agree that is some instances a person can take a hit with hardball and still keep on going, but in those cases a hollow point will cause the same reaction. Everyone touts ballistic gelatine as a flesh analog, but it is not perfect. Let's take a center mass shot, for instance, that bullet most likely will hit the breastbone or maybe bounce of a rib. which will cause a bullet to tumble. The more mass a bullet has the more destruction a bullet will cause. Hollow points are great if you have a clear shot to the open cavity. All those pictures of the gelatin show a nice clean track of expansion. But those pictures don't show what happens if you hit a bone. Which when that happens the holowpoint will most like break up from there or bounce off and cease expanding and tumble causing that kind of damage. Either instances will ruin your day. However a wound cause by hardball is different only in respect to the expansion, an if you hit a bone it will most likely break it and bouce of doing a similar tumble and similar damage. Odds are if you use a +p+ hollowpoint the bullet will overpenetrate anyway in a short distance, but if you go low and slow like a .45 acp or .44 special you have the same chance of the bullet staying in. You take an average self defense shoot-out, statistically it's within a frightening ten feet. Any round from most any pistol is likely to overpenetrate and it gets worse the closer you get. As for morality reasons the US and most other civilized nations signed the Geneva convention, which all you military guys and gals (thank you for serving by the way) know that they outlawed the use of anything other than a fmj because of the immorality of using hollow points and the destructive power they cause to the combatants. The use of hollow points for self defense should always rest on the person carrying a gun. Do I believe hollow points to be effective? Yes in some cases. I would never carry a 9mm or .40 with hardball. But a in a .45 you begin to see a point of diminishing returns. But in the end it all comes down to faith in the caliber and round you carry. If you are comfortable with it then run with it.
 

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These newer generations of JHPs do not break up when bone is hit. not for the most part. They are designed to to be tough enough stay in one piece while deforming or expanding.
Older JHPs might break up.

The physics and and fluid action of the body slows the JHP down because of it's design and shape. so there is much less chance of the bullet exiting. Hardball has nothing to slow it down.The round face does nothing to slow things down or reduce penetration. It slips through flesh much easier than JHPs or hollowpoints.
Another thing.

+P+ bullets have not been exiting bodies. Not even at close range. Hasn't happened or been reported by the LEO community who use them. Not in hollowpoint format. As a matter of fact there has been much more tissue disruption because of the +P or +P+ format. Pathologists and Medical Examiners have documented this well. Even at close range. That's what they were designed to do and the physics and track record prove it.

Physics, the gravely hurt, and the dead who were struck by sedate moving rounds after passing through the target after a solid hit are thoroughly documented. This by pathologists, medical examiners, and wound ballasticians.
Can't fight reality with anything but fact and that is what it is.

The morality and ethical part has no part of politics. That's goverments and their doing. Not talking about that. Though our troops do deserve JHPs, so that is morally reprehensible of the goverments to put our troops live in jeapordy that way.

Morality and ethics is going with something proven to be better than FMJ for keeping danger,hurt, or death from happening to others. JHPs and hollowpoints do that in practically every respect. They were designed for these reasons as well as bringing a attacker to the stop point more quickly.This has a moral aspect as well. Don't have to shoot the attacker/s so many times the trauma specialists have even more wounds and extreme damage to have to deal with. It's hard enough for doctors and surgeons to repair organs and tissue damaged by bullets. More wounds means more chance of death for the person shot.Just that much more to try and fix, if it can be fixed. There's a better chance with HPs or JHPs doing that over FMJ. Technology has helped in that respect over the last few decades.

Human life is sacred. JHPs and HPs help make that more possible under extreme circumstances under most conditions. FMJ does not.

Bullets never do take a straight path through the body. That's a given. Too many factors on case by case basis to make a blanket statement on that. For the most part.

Not saying that JHPs are the "Holy Grail" and will not fail. There are no guarentees on that. Can't be done. However there are things we can do to make things more likely happen in our favors for everybody. JHPs and HPs do that for the most part.
 

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I am not going to argue that hollow points are less effective than FMJ, I agree that they are more effective, but I will argue the neccesity. We all get caught up sometimes in the civilian arms race that the ammunition manufacturers are running. As advancements are made in bullet tech those companies like to make a profit on the next "wonder bullet" and hey I'm guilty of going along with the crowd for a while. My gun cabinet has boxes of every calliber of the black talons, (now a collecter item) hydra-shoks (my favorite for .44) and I think I still have some eldorado starfires for my .45. But in the past few years (maybe it's me getting older) I stopped carrying an auto and switched to a wheelgun. And with that since hollow points were so much more expensive than standard ball I just stopped buying them and went with whatever I trained with. I know how it shoots, and the gun will function fine with them. And Maybe it's just the caveman in me that says "big hole leak good" and thats why I gravitated towards a .44 and .45 pistols and trust that a regular old slug will stop a man. I still use hollow points with prairie dogs but thats about it. Maybe I'm just being an ol fart dinosaur like my old man, but I don't think I need the shiny new bullets anymore when my old ones do the same job. I am not worried about over penetration because if I am getting into a situation where I am defending my life and I am liable for those around me I gonna be sure of the backstop, and I hope those with CCWs even if you have hollowpoints are doing the same and not relying on the tech to save yourselves from a lawsuit. Sometimes your screwed either way and it's kill or be killed, but getting sued is better than getting killed. Bottom line is I don't think people have to be coerced into running hollow points in their carry piece out of fear of overpenetration or for "humane" reasons, I hope we are all adults here and can make those decisions for ourselves. Are hollow points absolutely neccesary? I don't know, at least I don't believe so, if they would make them cheaper so you could train with them more and your able to puts 100's of rounds through your gun like you can with hardball and not wind up in debt to make sure your gun is 100% reliable, then I would be advocating their use on a more wholesale level. For most of us however we run maybe a clip to make sure they work and train with hardball, saving "the good stuff" for carry. It don't make sense. But I believe that hardball in a .45 is a good self defense load for most situations, it gets the job done for the most part with some minor incidents of it not stopping a man who may or may not have beeen drugged or insane. I will not make that statement for a 9mm, or a .40.
 

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Julian Hatcher's forumula does work for round nosed bullets and works well for that.
In favor of the .44 and .45 calibers. No problem.

Many of the gun instructors make the recommendation that in winter,like here in good old Wisconsin and very cold places, that JHPs can have their cavities filled with clothing and jacket material and that turns the JHP into a FMJ in for all purposes.

So it's recommended that if that is more the possibility that the FMJ be big FMJ. Beats out small FMJ. The .44 magnum, .45Colt,and the .45ACP fill that bill.

There are good reasons at times for FMJ. It makes it simple on the ammo thing as well. Like you said Ace there can be too many wonder bullets. One can pick a JHP load or two and stick with it, but sometimes simplicity is best.

There's nothing dinosaur in that. Just good common sense.

As I stated before, JHP and even handguns are no death rays, but for portability and convience because we have to for many reasons.

There are plenty of horror stories we all could go back and forth with for each caliber, rifle or handgun, but why bother? These things happen for many reasons for which we no not all the details. Just can go with what we know.

So this was more an exercise in getting all pertinent data,facts, and other info,even personal experience out there for the general public. That's been done.

Will say this was not supposed to be preachy, but there are those out there who need to consider there situation and others as well. Too easy to overlook important things.

Go with what you know. Where I live there are too many people ,too close together, in paper thin walled buildings, for FMJ use. There are those for whom that is not a problem.

Two sides to every story and we've heard them here. Good reasons to go with either bullet type.
Just consider reality is all that can be asked.

Ace, you do have good points in many ways.
 

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Best reason I heard is to use hollowpoints was for the same reason that LEOs do. Less chance of overpenetration. Only want to stop the threat. Bigger holes and all energy expended in the BG's. ;)

Military isn't allowed to use hollowpoints. They also assume that hitting one guy put two out of the fight since some one will pull their buddy to safety and spend time trying to help him.

Criminals aren't known for helping anyone. Looking out for number one. If their cohort in crime gets hit they leave them to die. :mad:
 

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I have found my PT 1911 love the Taurus 99.99% copper and they are great bullets same as Corbon DPX I've been finding the Taurus copper at my local gun show for $19.95 for 20. Corbon DPX are close to $30. I went the route of federal personal protection in my .45 but did not care for the fireball and it was 165 grain hot load and it let you know it. I'm a big fan of 230 grain fmj or HP for the .45. Also my 1911 calmed down and shot just about everything at about 1000 rounds.
I found Novack 8 round mags are exactly like the Taurus brand but have a stronger springs and better followers.

MY 9mm I'm a little more picky with I tend to like golden sabers why its hard to say, it tends to shoot POA with my practice load wwb 115. I have also shot this load in the wwb JHP as a good back up for when money is tight. Hope this helps.
 
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