I'd say a shooter error issue in grip or by limpwristing.
same low & left aim issue with my G2
just bought my first Taurus (a PT111 Mil G2 if you didn't already guess) and ran 100 rounds through it at the range. I had read all over the internet about people having trouble with it shooting low and left and mine did the same. At 7 yards from a rest it was grouping around a point about 6 inches low and left. I maxxed out both adjustments for the rear sight and it got pretty close, still a little off.
What's the deal? This many people having the same issue with the gun cannot be a coincidence. Manufacturing issue?
What's the deal? This many people having the same issue with the gun cannot be a coincidence. Manufacturing issue?
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Mine adjusted in center no problems with 125 and 147 gr. A tad low for some reason with 115. Its close enough for IDPA scores and carry duty.
If the front site is anything like the site on my 809, it may be off a tick. I loosened the screw and moved it over. I actually used a caliper to check its center.
I have always doubted that this "low and left" business is the firearm's fault.
The shooter / owner needs to spend quality time with each new firearm, whether it is a long gun or a handgun, and become familiar with its characteristics.
There are no two models of rifles or handguns that shoot the same.
The shooter / owner needs to spend quality time with each new firearm, whether it is a long gun or a handgun, and become familiar with its characteristics.
There are no two models of rifles or handguns that shoot the same.
hmm, well, I've never claimed to be the world's best shot but I have been shooting for close to 30 years.... and this was shooting at an indoor range from a rest... hey, I don't claim to be a whiz kid with a trigger but isn't it odd that so many people have the same problem? Maybe I came to the wrong place to discuss this...
I apologize that my response was offensive, because that was not my intention.hmm, well, I've never claimed to be the world's best shot but I have been shooting for close to 30 years.... and this was shooting at an indoor range from a rest... hey, I don't claim to be a whiz kid with a trigger but isn't it odd that so many people have the same problem? Maybe I came to the wrong place to discuss this...
I will word my response differently. Many times I read posts where a newcomer to the shooting sport will post that their straight-out-of-the-box new handgun is shooting low and left. In those cases, I doubt that their problem is really the handgun...but more of a lack of training and shooting skills.
If you have been shooting handguns for 30 years, I'm sure that you already know that no two models of handguns shoot alike, and that a person must become familiar with the new firearm and spend quality time at the range before becoming proficient with it.
Taurus has an excellent lifetime warranty on their handguns; so if you feel the gun is shooting awry, then I recommend that you contact the helpful folks in their Customer Service Department.
Please accept my apology.
The first shot out of my G2 was dead on where i aimed....I just swung it up and fired without much thought... After that I was all over the paper and mostly low left....So, was my first shot what the gun can really do or a fluke and it is shooting low left....I tend to think it was my fault...Only more rounds sent downrange will tell the tale.....But, let me say this.......My pt111 G2 is one great feeling and shooting gun! Im so glad i purchased it!
"MilProGuy" is a stand-up guy, I'm sure y'all already knew that, but I respect what he said and to clear the air let me say this is a misunderstanding that is as much my fault for choosing words that made it seem as though I was personally offended. My skin is a lot thicker than what this episode may belie. I think I got off on the wrong foot here, let's start over...
I'm brand new to Taurus and to Taurusarmed.net but not to shooting, my wife and I have a small collection of Ruger, S&W, and Colt revolvers and autoloaders. I've been stalking an SR9c at my local gun store for a while and when I was checking in last week the guy started talking to me about the new PT111 G2 they just got in. I liked the way it fit my hand, the balance, the features and I was feeling froggy so on an impulse I took it home with me without doing any research first. Well, it was several days before I could get to the range and in the meantime I started reading about it on the internet and I find all this talk about "low and left". I thought it was strange as I had never read so many reports of a common accuracy problem like this on a model I was considering for purchase before. I cleaned and oiled the gun, loaded and unloaded the mags a few times, worked the slide a bunch, dry fired it a bunch to work things in, normal stuff I do with a new autoloader.
So I finally get to the range and I came prepared with the tools to make sight adjustments. I was shooting from a rest to reduce the potential for shooter's error (with me there is plenty of potential for shooter's error). I fired the first 4 shots which landed in a tight group at about 8 o'clock, six inches off the bullseye. Even though I had prepared for this after reading about it, I was frankly amazed that it actually happened.... I've never before bought a new gun that was this far off the mark. I started making adjustments and walking it in but I maxxed out both before getting there. It is still grouping at about 8 to 9 o'clock but now maybe only 1+ inches off the bullseye. No more adjustment to be made.
Now, the good news is the first 100 rounds of Magtech ammo went through without a hiccup. I've carried it in a SOB holster around the house and although the rough texture grip rubs against your back a bit it is comfortable enough and small enough to carry. I got the aim close enough to where I can hit a bad guy at self defense distances so I don't have any reason not to carry it.
BUT.... I feel like I shouldn't have to max out the adjustments just to get it close. Combined with so many other reports of the exact same issue.....???? something seems amiss here, where there is smoke there is fire. I'm headed back to the LGS today to talk it over with the guy there, but I'm wondering if since so many people, many of them on this forum, have the exact same issue maybe there is something wrong at the factory causing a manufacturing quality related issue with the construction of the guns. Possible?
<edit 2/18: changed "thinker" to "thicker">
I'm brand new to Taurus and to Taurusarmed.net but not to shooting, my wife and I have a small collection of Ruger, S&W, and Colt revolvers and autoloaders. I've been stalking an SR9c at my local gun store for a while and when I was checking in last week the guy started talking to me about the new PT111 G2 they just got in. I liked the way it fit my hand, the balance, the features and I was feeling froggy so on an impulse I took it home with me without doing any research first. Well, it was several days before I could get to the range and in the meantime I started reading about it on the internet and I find all this talk about "low and left". I thought it was strange as I had never read so many reports of a common accuracy problem like this on a model I was considering for purchase before. I cleaned and oiled the gun, loaded and unloaded the mags a few times, worked the slide a bunch, dry fired it a bunch to work things in, normal stuff I do with a new autoloader.
So I finally get to the range and I came prepared with the tools to make sight adjustments. I was shooting from a rest to reduce the potential for shooter's error (with me there is plenty of potential for shooter's error). I fired the first 4 shots which landed in a tight group at about 8 o'clock, six inches off the bullseye. Even though I had prepared for this after reading about it, I was frankly amazed that it actually happened.... I've never before bought a new gun that was this far off the mark. I started making adjustments and walking it in but I maxxed out both before getting there. It is still grouping at about 8 to 9 o'clock but now maybe only 1+ inches off the bullseye. No more adjustment to be made.
Now, the good news is the first 100 rounds of Magtech ammo went through without a hiccup. I've carried it in a SOB holster around the house and although the rough texture grip rubs against your back a bit it is comfortable enough and small enough to carry. I got the aim close enough to where I can hit a bad guy at self defense distances so I don't have any reason not to carry it.
BUT.... I feel like I shouldn't have to max out the adjustments just to get it close. Combined with so many other reports of the exact same issue.....???? something seems amiss here, where there is smoke there is fire. I'm headed back to the LGS today to talk it over with the guy there, but I'm wondering if since so many people, many of them on this forum, have the exact same issue maybe there is something wrong at the factory causing a manufacturing quality related issue with the construction of the guns. Possible?
<edit 2/18: changed "thinker" to "thicker">
Sounds like you have gone over it very well and may be on to something. Unfortunately many manufactured products have issues, in my line of work I have seen many recalls from various manufacturers so it is possible and usually takes a dilligent consumer to realize and report it.
I had a customer who had issues with a major manufacturers drill, it couldn't drill straight, and couldn't drive screws straight. Turned out the chuck was installed incorrectly ....on an entire production run.
I had a customer who had issues with a major manufacturers drill, it couldn't drill straight, and couldn't drive screws straight. Turned out the chuck was installed incorrectly ....on an entire production run.
dm440c - I feel you frustration. I had extreme low left on my 709, I adjusted sights until no more left and still low left (this from rest). Returned to Taurus. They replaced sights supposedly. In any case any left or low is my doing now, as from rest it's dead on.
I looked at threads in the 7XX Forum some time back. There was some kind of kooky "lockup being altered by trigger pull" problem - where the barrel was moving in these striker-fired pistols when you move that trigger finger through the stroke. Aren't the 24-7 G2 handguns striker-fired? If I were the OP, I'd check to see if the handgun was unloaded, pop in a dummy cartridge, point the gun somewhere where I could watch the muzzle-end (get an assistant if necessary oh, and did I mention you should carefully insure the weapon is unloaded?) and have her slowly pull Mr. Trigger to see if the barrel moves left in the slide.
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hey now that's very interesting, sounds like a good lead to track down. I'll give that a try. I'll try to ignore the maniacal look in wifey's eye while she assists me on that exercise...I looked at threads in the 7XX Forum some time back. There was some kind of kooky "lockup being altered by trigger pull" problem - where the barrel was moving in these striker-fired pistols when you move that trigger finger through the stroke. Aren't the 24-7 G2 handguns striker-fired? If I were the OP, I'd check to see if the handgun was unloaded, pop in a dummy cartridge, point the gun somewhere where I could watch the muzzle-end (get an assistant if necessary oh, and did I mention you should carefully insure the weapon is unloaded?) and have her slowly pull Mr. Trigger to see if the barrel moves left in the slide.
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i will report back and see what i find. havent shot mine yet, hopefully this upcoming week i will, i am busy with work and all, but i will try and make time for the range this week. i am anxious to see if this low and left issue is a symptom...with the shortage of ammo right now i wont be able to shoot a lot of rds through it but we shall see.
I'm going to the range at 8 o'clock , going out to a range off Everyman parkway here in FortWorth ! Dying to put some ammo down range.
I may be presumptuous here but I think most of us have had the low and left problem on the mil pros.
Mine went away after about 50 rounds and two severe cleanings. That cosmoline buries itself deep inside. Maybe the slide spring needs to loosen up a bit or the metal needs to grind itself in a tad.
The left was quick and easy to fix but i had to adjust both the front and back sights as the front alone was not enough.
Now that I have finished a bob job on my front sight and readjusted all I can change the sex on rats at 25 feet. I just wish I could get enough bullets affect the population. Right now I feel more like Elmer Fud wif jus a few buwits. hahahahaha
Mine went away after about 50 rounds and two severe cleanings. That cosmoline buries itself deep inside. Maybe the slide spring needs to loosen up a bit or the metal needs to grind itself in a tad.
The left was quick and easy to fix but i had to adjust both the front and back sights as the front alone was not enough.
Now that I have finished a bob job on my front sight and readjusted all I can change the sex on rats at 25 feet. I just wish I could get enough bullets affect the population. Right now I feel more like Elmer Fud wif jus a few buwits. hahahahaha
Mine was the same way low left.Turns out my inexperience was the reason.A friend put a 12rd hole in the papper n told me how and where to hold.Shortly affter I tore out a couple of nice groups at seven yrds. I was excited,the more i shoot the better it feels.Over 300 rds and this gun is slick feels like a different weapon.Very proud to own one it even gets a few positive comments from folks at the range seems like the trigger impresses everyone that fires it.
After yesterday I'm feeling the same way. I just posted my range report on a new thread. The trigger took some getting used to for me, but the only limitation to the accuracy of this pistol is the operator!Mine was the same way low left.Turns out my inexperience was the reason.A friend put a 12rd hole in the papper n told me how and where to hold.Shortly affter I tore out a couple of nice groups at seven yrds. I was excited,the more i shoot the better it feels.Over 300 rds and this gun is slick feels like a different weapon.Very proud to own one it even gets a few positive comments from folks at the range seems like the trigger impresses everyone that fires it.
I can see the barrel having play. The barrel moves a lot when the slide is locked back. I would put my money on the barrel has a movement. I have had many hand guns and the barrel does not move when the slide is locked back, not to the extent of this pt111. Is that normal?
The barrel of blow back pistols will not move. The mil pro is locked breach and the barrel durring lock up should be snug, but it will be a little loose when cycling. The bulllet will have left the barrel before the barrel reached the unlock point so should not change POI.
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