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Link? Pic?
 

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I just Googled it. Not something I would like to shoot in 12ga, .410 maybe, but I don't even know if that's a thing.
 

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Wow!!!! What a hoot to shoot. would be a wrist killer for sure. but I would try it. Maybe some low recoil shells would make it almost useful.
 

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The Germans experimented with something similar during WW2...:unsure:...I believe they called it "der armenschnapper".
 

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The Germans experimented with something similar during WW2...
...I believe they called it "der armenschnapper".
Awesome. I wrote a English to German "Dictionary" for new lieutenants coming to OCONUS for the first time. Had great entries like:

Ashtray - Ashensmashen

Eyeglasses - Eyesenseein
Rifle - Grossen Leadentossin
Pistol - Kline Leadentossin

Of course I interspersed regular stuff in like:

Unmarried woman - Frauline
Married woman - Frau
Die (dee) - Female.pronoun (Die moon)
Der - Male pronoun (Der Zon)
Water - Vosser

Much of it was in phonic form. I wanted to make things very easy (smirk) for my Louies. 😇

I would get such a dirty look from my CSM whenever a Louie asked for a Ashensmashen to put out his cigarette.

Yes, smoking in the offices.... It's been a while.
 

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Looks like a class 3 firearm to me. Too much paperwork for what it'd be worth IMHO, and then there's the 200 dollar tax stamp.
 
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They're legal in Canada, but not in the USA, so unless you live up north, no dice.

The closest thing you can get to that in the States (without a $200 Tax Stamp) is a Thompson Center Arms Contender in .410 Bore.

That being said, if you want a Short 12 Gauge Shotgu-Err... *Ahem* "PGO Firearm" then your best bet is the Mossberg 590 Shockwave, or you could get the Remington TAC-14, or the Ithaca 37 Stakeout II, or the Charles Daly/Chiappa Honcho, or whoever else is making them these days, but the Mossberg is arguably the best due to greater magazine capacity, ambidextrous safety, and drilled/tapped receiver.

If you want a pistol-sized package, then your only opinions are the .410/.45 Taurus Judge, Smith & Wesson Governor, or (if you don't mind it being Single Action only) Magnum Research BFR.
 
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The contender is "pistol sized". Mine has a 10" barrel with a removable choke for .45 Colt. The choke makes it good to 30 yards on small game, pretty handy knock around gun carried cross draw. There's also a cheap single shot .410/.45 Colt which I don't remember the name of. My ex SIL had one...I'll keep my Contender, thanks. Besides, it's also a .30-30 or a 7mm TCU or a .22LR or what ever barrel I decide to buy for it. I've shied away from the thought of .45-70. :D
In that 12, they were shooting Foster slugs. I don't even wanna THINK about it. :rofl:





 

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I have not tried it, but I’ve heard that I could use a .410 in my Ruger Blackhawk — it being a .45 Long Colt caliber.

Bob


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Ah, a bit of googling, the "super Comanche" is what Brandon had, about 150 bucks at the time. It of course is restricted to standard SAAMI .45 Colt pressures where the Contender can shoot anything +P. Beyond that, though, I was never impressed with built "quality" or lack there of. But, hey, the Contender is an expensive gun, not really comparable.

 

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I have not tried it, but I’ve heard that I could use a .410 in my Ruger Blackhawk — it being a .45 Long Colt caliber.

Bob


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Nope, cylinder is way too short. I have a stainless Blackhawk in .45 Colt, heck of a good shooter.....with .45 Colt. :D It'll shoot 4" groups at 100 yards. The Judge and Governor are .410 revolvers with proper length cylinders, but that very cylinder length limits their accuracy to about half what the Blackhawk gets. Same is true of the Contender. Still useful with .45, just ain't the tack driver the Ruger is.
 

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I don't know why some folks assume this gun is against the law in the United States. Upon looking at the gun watching the video and thinking about it I realize that it comes under the same type of specifications as the Shockwave. The Shockwave is legal because the batf definition of a shotgun among other things is that it has to be fired from the shoulder. It also has to be produced from a virgin receiver with no stock that can be fired from a shoulder. In other words, you cannot just buy a single shot shotgun, cut the stock down and add a pistol grip to make a shotgun pistol.

Now, if that is what makes the Shockwave legal then these little guns would also be legal. If anything at all I would suspect they might be classified as an AOW (Any Other Weapon) which is only a $5 fee to legally own and shoot.

Don

Don
 

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The contender is "pistol sized". Mine has a 10" barrel with a removable choke for .45 Colt. The choke makes it good to 30 yards on small game, pretty handy knock around gun carried cross draw. There's also a cheap single shot .410/.45 Colt which I don't remember the name of. My ex SIL had one...I'll keep my Contender, thanks. Besides, it's also a .30-30 or a 7mm TCU or a .22LR or what ever barrel I decide to buy for it. I've shied away from the thought of .45-70. :D
In that 12, they were shooting Foster slugs. I don't even wanna THINK about it. :rofl:
There are very few pistols out there with 10" Barrels, most are 6.5" at the longest, ergo I don't really consider the Contender to be pistol size.

Nope, cylinder is way too short. I have a stainless Blackhawk in .45 Colt, heck of a good shooter.....with .45 Colt. :D It'll shoot 4" groups at 100 yards. The Judge and Governor are .410 revolvers with proper length cylinders, but that very cylinder length limits their accuracy to about half what the Blackhawk gets. Same is true of the Contender. Still useful with .45, just ain't the tack driver the Ruger is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've never shot a Judge nor a Governor before, have you? Assuming that you're basing your expectations of the Judge/Governor's accuracy based on the results of other people's testing, then do be aware that the majority of data posted on the accuracy of the Judge is likely based on the standard model with a 3" Barrel and the Governor with a 2.5" Barrel, so assuming that your Redhawk has a 6.5" Barrel or longer, then having twice the accuracy is most likely the result of having over twice the barrel length.

I've said it before and I'll say it as many times as necessary, a large number of the supposed shortcomings are based on unsubstantiated theory-crafting rather than actual documented testing.

@BangBang, the Rossi is indeed illegal in the USA, and while it may appear similar to the Shockwave, it's important to note the the Shockwave is really skirting the lines between an AOW and a SBS. Two of the most important facts is that it's too long to be considered an AOW at 26.5" and lacks a conventional pistol grip.
 

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There are very few pistols out there with 10" Barrels, most are 6.5" at the longest, ergo I don't really consider the Contender to be pistol size.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've never shot a Judge nor a Governor before, have you? Assuming that you're basing your expectations of the Judge/Governor's accuracy based on the results of other people's testing, then do be aware that the majority of data posted on the accuracy of the Judge is likely based on the standard model with a 3" Barrel and the Governor with a 2.5" Barrel, so assuming that your Redhawk has a 6.5" Barrel or longer, then having twice the accuracy is most likely the result of having over twice the barrel length.

I've said it before and I'll say it as many times as necessary, a large number of the supposed shortcomings are based on unsubstantiated theory-crafting rather than actual documented testing.

@BangBang, the Rossi is indeed illegal in the USA, and while it may appear similar to the Shockwave, it's important to note the the Shockwave is really skirting the lines between an AOW and a SBS. Two of the most important facts is that it's too long to be considered an AOW at 26.5" and lacks a conventional pistol grip.
I fired a Judge at the first Sand Lake event. Texas Deputy took a pic and hosted it on photo bucket and the link won't link here. Of course, I didn't bench it. But, I have benched my Contender, which with other barrels is capable of MOA, but won't shoot better than 2" at 25 yards with .45s. Bare in mind, too, that the Contender is no longer in OAL than a 6" Judge. There's no cylinder. The chamber is integral with the barrel, measured from the rim of the round to the muzzle. In the Judge, the barrel is measured from the forcing cone to the muzzle.
 

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As to the OP 12 gauge not being a short barreled shotgun, the only thing that keeps the Judge and TC Contender (which did the legal work in the supreme court for all successive .410 handguns) is, the barrel is RIFLED. The gun is considered a .45 Colt handgun. It happens to chamber .410 with its longer than .45 Colt cylinder/chamber. This 12 is a smooth bore, of course, with no comparable cartridge that would fire in it. Therefore it IS a short barreled shotgun.

Taurus tried to sell a 20 gauge Judge in the US, even brought it to the shot show where the ATF shot it down. :rofl:
 
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If the rumors are to be believed, the ATF straight up confiscated it from Taurus during SHOT Show.
 
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Wow you know as much as I know,I never seen one before thanks for the photo.
 
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