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I hope I am posting this in the correct grouping.. I attempted to find a moderator to ask but none were online at this time.

A group of PAFOA (Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association) went to an Old Country Buffet OC'ing the other night and we confronted by an armada of LEO's that don't know the laws in PA about Open Carry.

Below is a statement made by Open Carry . Org pertaining to this and also a link to the PAFOA site for those that are interested.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/10755.html

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/conceale...ountry-buffet-dickson-city-5-9-a-page-15.html

PA is an OPEN CARRY state.... which means you do NOT need a permit or license to carry OPENLY as long as you are on foot and not in certain restricted locations..i.e. schools, federal buildings...etc..
When a firearm is CONCEALED or you are in vehicle you need a LTCF. ( License to Carry Firearm)....which HAS to be issued by the county Sheriff for the county in which you reside. This application CANNOT be refused unless there is INDISPUTABLE proof that you are irresponsible or have a criminal background which would prevent you from legally obtaining a firearm.

HOPEFULLY, with the possible upcoming lawsuits, the LEO's will LEARN to enforce the laws and NOT make up ones the want in any given circumstance.
 

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From looking over the forum, these guys posted in. It looks like they set this up in advance, and there should have been even more there than showed up.
But again, someone called the police! Police over reacted instead of finding out the facts and the law that covered the case. The other departments sent support, "mutual aid" and they had to leave it up to the original responders, "even if they did not like what was going down".
I did not see any report on what the original call to the police said, but it sure seems like somebody blew it.
 

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This is so disheartening. How are honest, law abiding citizens supposed to keep allowing this kind of violations of our civil rights? It seems like nobody ever, ever pays the price for stuff like this - I don't think anybody ever answered for Katrina either. Heads should roll, and citizens, not just people who live in PA, should be mad as hell and start a paper blizzard to Washington, the PA governor, and anybody else who might get the idea that this kind of stuff goes way too far.

I put off getting my CHL for years, finally got it last month. I was a member of the NRA for a couple of years in the early 90's, but didn't really get why that was important.....but let me tell you, my eyes are wide open now. Shame on me for not supporting this terrific organization. I'm signing up for a membership tomorrow.
 

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wow.. does'nt PA have one of the highest gun ownerships in the country? you would think they'ed be more educated about gun laws there.

there is no excuse for this.. personally i like the idea of OC but i have'nt yet worked up the balls for it cause i know there will be incidents like this.. i will some day though.

a big reason though is in Ohio you can't OC in a car which makes it difficult to do.. even if i wanted to walk it would take me forever getting somewhere, cities just are'nt pedestrian friendly.

if you lock the gun up during transit you end up having ot holster and unholster, secure the gun quite a lot.. just not practical.. and omg just imagine someone seeing you with the gun going in or out of your holster and in your hand.. nightmare police incident waiting to happen.
 

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Thank you for sharing this schr8er. I was in total shock as I read this. Harassing the family like that in a restaurant, what a bunch of morons. I hope this get settled quickly and some type of punishment is done to the officers who are responsible for this mess.

Please keep up posted with any updates.
 

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While I do not disagree that these LEO's could have handled the situation in a manner that did not trample of these citizens' rights, it also begs the question, just what did these people think might happen? A group of people in civilian clothes walking around openly carrying handguns is not something you see every day in a restaurant. It doesn't take a lot of thought to imagine someone might call 911. In fact, one could argue that such a call to 911 was likely.

This group was pushing buttons and they knew it. They are lucky to have it end without anyone getting hurt. I am giving both sides an "F" for their actions.
 

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VegasGuy said:
This group was pushing buttons and they knew it. They are lucky to have it end without anyone getting hurt. I am giving both sides an "F" for their actions.
This was my thoughts, after visiting their forum. The police were definitely not being very smart, but this thing had been planned to take place over a period of weeks. Right or wrong, the problem affects every gun owner, CC, or OC when Anti's get hold of it.
 

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VegasGuy said:
While I do not disagree that these LEO's could have handled the situation in a manner that did not trample of these citizens' rights, it also begs the question, just what did these people think might happen? A group of people in civilian clothes walking around openly carrying handguns is not something you see every day in a restaurant. It doesn't take a lot of thought to imagine someone might call 911. In fact, one could argue that such a call to 911 was likely.

This group was pushing buttons and they knew it. They are lucky to have it end without anyone getting hurt. I am giving both sides an "F" for their actions.
So we get an 'F' for exercising the rights granted to us by the 2nd amendment and the PA constitution? All they were doing were enjoying dinner with friends and family. I can see how that would lead to someone getting hurt. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
YES.. this event WAS planned ahead of time....
YES.. there are people that dont KNOW or UNDERSTAND our rights

but NO.... The Old Country Buffet WAS informed ahead of time of this function and did NOT in any way try to stop it. Matter if fact, it was found that the two managers on duty ( of which ONE I know if was a woman... not sure if the other was male or female ) were BOTH CC.

Their comment, when asked by the Police Officers, if it would be a problem for them to return after this altercation ....the FEMALE Manager stated : "there was No problem here, until you arrived".

And like so many of you said, if its NOT illegal, why should we not enjoy ourselves. These people are all legally carrying, law abiding citizens exercising their RIGHT to carry openly.

If some people DONT like it... TOO BAD.... maybe I dont like their hairdo either.....but I have to tolerate that... along with some people that put perfume on with a paint roller and the fumes can kill at 100 yards.

A RIGHT IS A RIGHT....
 

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It would not surprise me one iota to learn PAFOA wanted to "exercise their 2A rights," only to find out that no one cared. Rather than going home and being happy that they could exercise their right to open carry without incident, they dropped a dime on themselves in order to create the incident in the first place.

One of Ron White's one liners comes to mind. :loco:

[Edit]Corrected the double phrase, " on themselves on themselves"[/Edit]
 

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Vegas, even if that were true, then the police should have showed up and not cared too. PA is an open carry state - they acted like these citizens were openly carrying guns in CA or NYC or somewhere like that. No excuse, none at all.
 

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vegas you're crazy man, first you say they was pushing buttons.. im sorry but since when is exercising you rights pushing buttons.. they was'nt waving them around or had them on the table my understanding is every gun was holstered.

they was just a group of OC'ers getting together to have dinner some of them brought their familes ffs.

then you theorize they called the cops on them selves? are you nuts?

and like texas said even if they did call the cops on them selves the cops handled it almost as poorly as you be imagined.
 

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texastaurusguy said:
Vegas, even if that were true, then the police should have showed up and not cared too. PA is an open carry state - they acted like these citizens were openly carrying guns in CA or NYC or somewhere like that. No excuse, none at all.
Re-read my previous post where I gave the LEO's an "F," too. I didn't excuse their actions.
 

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joe sixpack said:
vegas you're crazy man, first you say they was pushing buttons.. im sorry but since when is exercising you rights pushing buttons
Because pushing buttons can go bad even when you are within your rights. People get hurt because tensions are high and all it takes is for someone to do something stupid.
 

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I see your point Vegas - some people go around trying to pick a fight, then get shocked when they get punched in the nose.....but open carry means open carry, and you shouldn't be scared to exercise you right. You should use your head about it, of course - but as long as you're not walking around like some dimestore badass, and you're being responsible, I don't have a problem with it.
 

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Pushing buttons with a large group of LEO get you the OK coral remember it was a flower pot knocked over that caused Kent State. not a good situation :'(
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I dont believe I am hearing this from some of you. A RIGHT IS A RIGHT... and if I prefer to OC in a dinner setting with my family and friends and the owners dont mind... what business IS it of someone else?? Even the Police SHOULD know the laws.... and in this particular situation they didnt... Illegal search, Illegal detention, requesting ID when they had NO reason to ask for it, confiscating a persons PRIVATE property without a warrant, attempting to stop someone from videotaping it, and I can go on and on and on. THIS type of action HAS to be stopped... and I PRAISE those people for standing up against this type of emotional police brutality. Just think if they were to make up the laws as they wanted. Hell.. we would ALL be in jail.... cuz they didnt like the way you drove your car, the COLOR of your car... Come on people... WAKE UP... our rights are being taken away one chip at a time and we have to step up and say enough is enough......
 

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There were alot of armed cops there all pumped up, there were people there armed which cops don't like it when they are not in control. so what do you do at that exact moment which does not lead to disaster. Yes there rights were being violated. Who knows who said what. MY advice back away and fight it out in court your not winning this gunfight. years ago I was at a large Collage party someone threw a beer at the cops in there car they decided it was me because I had a longneck beer the same as the one tossed at the police they jumped out slamed me to the ground while everyone was screaming it was not me and was the guy running away. Did it matter to them no. About fifteen people were saying it was not me they handcuffed me and threw me against the car and called for backup was my rights violated yep were they wrong yep didn't matter nope till there sargent showed up and told them to let me go. He asked if I wanted to go downtown and press charges this could have turned into a riot I told him just take care of his officers so they don't just go and jump anyone they want when witnesses are there saying they screwed up. Should I have pressed charges probably, But I was young 18 when you could drink at that age not just die for your country. never did understand that one you could run a tank or missle launcher and die for your country but you can't have a beer. Ater rambling on my point is when your up against a bunch of armed cops it's not the time to start draging out the Contitution because at that time they don't care. and things can go bad fast.I'm as mad about this as most of us are but this is the crap we the people have allowed to happen over and over againSo what do we do its time to vote again and here we go and give back more and more of our rights. I really don't know the answer. I believe we have slipped to far down the slop so hold onto your shorts because its going to get much much worse. God Help Us!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well these people were NOT Dimestore cowboys looking to shoot up the town... they were a group of people out for a nice dinner with friends and family who HAPPEN to want to OC... They have the right... and the cops were wrong.. from start to finish they were wrong. Once they determines that this was a LEGAL action they should have turned around and went back to the donut shop.... Thats all.... THEY were the ones that corrupted the situation... and infringed on many peoples rights. And YES.. there IS going to be a court action in this matter.
I just want MY rights observed when I carry OC.... and not be questioned about it.
Thats all I have to say at this time....
 
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