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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a few hundred rounds loaded for my 9mm Taurus 24/7. I am having issues with jamming and the empty cartridges not kicking out. Has anyone ever used the IMR HI-SKOR 700-X powder to reload shells for this gun. Since I am still new to the reloading game I had my buddy help me do the loads and he is thinking that the powder does not burn fast enough for the pistol.
 

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I've just started loading with 700-x for my OSS with 115 gr Precision Delta FMJ bullets. I have had no problems with jamming or fail to eject. I did have some problems with fail to fire but I think it was a gun problem, not the ammo. What load data did you use? I have found some conflicts in the limited data available. The IMR web site for a 115 gr GDHp (jacketed, I believe) has a starting load of 3.9 gr and a max load of 4.2 gr. The Lee manual (and data that came with the die set) has for a 115 gr jacketed bullet a starting load of 4.2 gr and a max load of 4.7 gr. I loaded with 4.2 gr (from the .57 cc hole in the Auto Disk), splitting the difference and saw no indication of overpressure.

If you search in the Reloading forum you will find other discussions of 700-x. You might also repeat this post there
 

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700-X is very fast powder. Burn rate is not the cause of your FTE. Charge weight might be, but only if the charge is really light.

9mm pistols can be finicky about cartridge overall length (coal). Coal can affect the pressure profile.

Start with a load that is at or near the "starting load" for your powder and bullet.

Remember the basics: Speed is affected by bullet weight, charge, and barrel length. Trying to achieve max velocity from a heavier bullet from a shorter barrel will get you in trouble.

Find a charge that gives you "medium" velocity for your bullet weight and barrel length and also shoots good groups. Then vary the coal in increments of 10 or 15 thou in either direction and see if the groups get better and the function gets more reliable. A big change in coal can be similar to small change in powder charge because you are changing the pressure event.

If you can, sort brass by headstamp. It's a pain, but euro brass like S&B or Israeli brass will not act like Win or FC brass. This is because the internal case dimensions are different, therefore different pressure event.

Blaster 9mm ammo is super easy to load. You can short-cut straight to standard loads that will shoot 8" at 15 yards no problem.

Consistent, accurate 9mm ammo is a different story. My loads shoot 8" at 50 yards, but I have a different load for each gun, and there are no shortcuts. 9mm ammo is cheap, so there are no measurable $ savings in reloading it. The only reason to do it is to create premium ammo. So you gotta enjoy the process, learn about it, fine tune, etc.

Good luck!
 

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Very early in my Reloading Career, I used 700x to load handgun and 12 gauge shotgun. Worked best in the .45 ACP and .38 Special. In the 9mm, it was very limited but had accurate results. Worked best when powder charges were 1/10th grain under max. There are much better powders for the 9mm, but that would depend upon whether you are loading purely Target or Performance loads. 700x is only suitable for light target loads. Best load I came out with was 4.3 grns of 700x under a surplus Winchester or Remington 115 grn FMJ for a Velocity of 1100 fps. OAL was 1.135. Primer - Winchester.

9mm Cast Bullet loading was 3.3 grns of 700x under a Commercial Cast 124 grn Conical. Velocity was only 950 fps and would only work in my old WWII Walther P38, which had weak WWII vintage recoil springs. Later I replaced those Recoil Springs and that loading would no longer cycle.

You really need to be in the 1050 fps range with 124 grn bullets to reliably cycle most 9mm Pistols and I think the 24/7 is no exception to that rule. My current Match/IPSC loading uses a 124 grn Berry's plated Flat Point over 4.8 grns of WST, which is a much better powder, for 1120 fps.

Now you can also load 147 grn Bullets for the 9mm, if you want a subsonic load. But 700x isn't cut out for those heavy bullets. There may be 700x data for them, but I would never even consider it for that use. There are much better powders to be used in the 9mm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've just started loading with 700-x for my OSS with 115 gr Precision Delta FMJ bullets. I have had no problems with jamming or fail to eject. I did have some problems with fail to fire but I think it was a gun problem, not the ammo. What load data did you use? I have found some conflicts in the limited data available. The IMR web site for a 115 gr GDHp (jacketed, I believe) has a starting load of 3.9 gr and a max load of 4.2 gr. The Lee manual (and data that came with the die set) has for a 115 gr jacketed bullet a starting load of 4.2 gr and a max load of 4.7 gr. I loaded with 4.2 gr (from the .57 cc hole in the Auto Disk), splitting the difference and saw no indication of overpressure.

If you search in the Reloading forum you will find other discussions of 700-x. You might also repeat this post there
We are using Hornady 115gr FMJ bullets with 3.6 gr load (it was what was in between the starting and max load on IMR loading data sheet). He must have found an older data sheet if you say that the IMR site has a starting load of 3.9 grs and max of 4.2, guess that could be the issue I am having.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Very early in my Reloading Career, I used 700x to load handgun and 12 gauge shotgun. Worked best in the .45 ACP and .38 Special. In the 9mm, it was very limited but had accurate results. Worked best when powder charges were 1/10th grain under max. There are much better powders for the 9mm, but that would depend upon whether you are loading purely Target or Performance loads. 700x is only suitable for light target loads. Best load I came out with was 4.3 grns of 700x under a surplus Winchester or Remington 115 grn FMJ for a Velocity of 1100 fps. OAL was 1.135. Primer - Winchester.

9mm Cast Bullet loading was 3.3 grns of 700x under a Commercial Cast 124 grn Conical. Velocity was only 950 fps and would only work in my old WWII Walther P38, which had weak WWII vintage recoil springs. Later I replaced those Recoil Springs and that loading would no longer cycle.

You really need to be in the 1050 fps range with 124 grn bullets to reliably cycle most 9mm Pistols and I think the 24/7 is no exception to that rule. My current Match/IPSC loading uses a 124 grn Berry's plated Flat Point over 4.8 grns of WST, which is a much better powder, for 1120 fps.

Now you can also load 147 grn Bullets for the 9mm, if you want a subsonic load. But 700x isn't cut out for those heavy bullets. There may be 700x data for them, but I would never even consider it for that use. There are much better powders to be used in the 9mm.
What powders would you recommend for a 9mm? I have not loaded any for my .45 ACP yet but plan to in the future, I just don't shoot it like the 9mm because rounds are more expensive and I don't want to send cheap ammo through it.

As stated above I am using 115 gr Hornady bullets, have JHP but wanted to get a good load worked up before we did any of them. Not sure how much brass plays into the reloading game but I am using brass from factory loaded ammo as plinking rounds just because I have it but I have quite a mix: Federal, American Eagle (think is also Federal), Blazer, PMC, Remington, and some from a company called Independent (which I think after reseach is a branch of one of the brand names but can't think of it now). I am also using Federal primers.

We also put the select few out of each group loaded on the caliper, which I think they still may have been a little long and we needed to take 1/100 off.
 

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Bullseye, Tite-group, Unique. There are others as well.

Brass is as important as any other component. Shortcuts with brass = shortcuts with the foundation of the load.

I have a good load for glock 17, using WIN brass. Accurate, feeds well, etc. In a recent experiment, I loaded 4 of them in S&B brass, it moved the POI 2" at 15 yards. That's a lot. Maybe not every different make of brass will move the poi 2", but they will move it some. Trying to get a decent group with 5 different kinds of brass is kind of like chasing your tail.

Your best coal will vary with each load, each type of bullet, each gun.

It's easy to see all this for yourself. Make a load with 1.125 coal. Then make a few of the exact same load with 1.155 coal. You'll be surprised how much the poi moves with no other changes. Longr coal feeds better than shorter coal, generally.

I load many different rifle and pistol cartridges I remember when I started 9mm, I was looking forward to an easy shortcut to a load that worked well in any of my guns. No such thing. Loading 9mm is like any other cartridge: no shortcuts, and the best load for one gun will not be the best for the next gun.

Good luck. Get a $100 Pal chrony and have some fun.
 

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We are using Hornady 115gr FMJ bullets with 3.6 gr load (it was what was in between the starting and max load on IMR loading data sheet). He must have found an older data sheet if you say that the IMR site has a starting load of 3.9 grs and max of 4.2, guess that could be the issue I am having.
You can see IMR's recommendations at http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp. A load of 3.6 gr does sound very light. I also loaded to a COAL of 1.150, mimicking factory ammo.
 

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The problem with 700x used in the 9mm, is that 700x's pressure curve is way too abrupt to be useful beyond mild loadings. However, if you are just plinking, then it can be useful with jacketed bullets, but only near max.

There are a number of very good powders very useful in the 9mm. For Target loads with Cast or Plated bullets I use WST. For performance loads, I use Hodgdon HS6. Excellent mid-range powders are AA#5 and Unique. I also happen to like Alliant Red Dot and Green Dot for both Target and performance loads. The only problem with Flake Powders is that they can be fussy about metering in the powder measure, but somehow I've always gotten along with them. Ball Powders, which I tend to dote on, meter so consistently well, but they are not the end all-be all!

Another mid-range powder a lot of people use is W231 or HP38 (same powder - different canister) and it can work well. Quite Frankly, with apologies to Frank, I hate the stuff. It does work, but it's Muzzle flashy, dirty burning, and Cold Temperature sensitive. If you plan to try it, get the Hodgdon HP38 version as it seems to be of better quality and is usually lower in price. My opinions - FWIW.

In choosing a powder, always determine what you want the load to do first, then try to pick one that is efficient at delivering the goods at reasonable (less than max) pressure. Judgement call here.
 
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I was having the same problem with my new Taurus Judge Ultralite. (awesome home defense weapon by the way). Anyway took it back to where I bought it and was advised that it "can" take many rounds shot (as many as 150) to "break the gun in". I was having several "mis fires" and also shells "sticking" in the chambers ocassionally. Cleaned the weapon and oiled very very lightly. Dry fired the gun (using snap caps so not to damage it). I fired American Eagle factory loads .... and also my own reloads using the Hi-Skor 700-X powder. End of story ..... it made no difference both had the same problems ... therefore I do not believe it has to do with the 700-x power .... after dry firing and firing over 150 rounds .... all issues are gone so evidentially there can be something to "breaking in" some guns. It is my belief that originally when I cleaned the gun I left too much oil and that was what was making the shells "stick". The misfires I was having was mostly when using the double action. I am SO pleased with the Judge ultralite. Everything is working fine now.
 

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jwc007 is on the right track, but I think the 9mm is suited better for slightly slower powders such as Unique, AA#5, AA#7, Universal Clays, Power Pistol, WSF, and AutoComp. All of these powders also work very well in the .45 Auto.

Also, ditch the friend, he obviously doesn't know much about reloading and sounds dangerous. Reloading is all about forming safe habits, one of those and perhaps the most important is to NEVER just pick a load and start reloading to it. Second has to be guessing about charge weight on a powder measure. Do yourself a favor and get a scale and check the charges you are throwing. You can sometimes get away with these bad habits on light target loads, but make no mistake, these are dangerously bad habits.

Read the reloading manuals and figure out a procedure for testing your loads in your pistol and then stick to that test procedure to arrive at an accurate and reliable load. Develop a procedure for reloading, make a checklist and follow it. Document everything you do, because at some point you will want to go back and load that magic load you found while out testing. It might be along the way to whatever your goal load was and you won't be able to recover it if you did not document everything. Get a chronograph so you know, and don't guess, about what is happening with your loads. A chrono can catch issues before they become catastrophic, as well as tell you how good your load is shooting. If you keep increasing the load, but fps is only minimally increasing you are probably at or above the max for your pistol. With a little reading you can find out all kinds of helpful information that a cheap chrono can provide. Know the signs of over pressure before you start shooting those reloads. Know which powders are dangerous when under loaded. Nothing beats reading your reloading manuals, yes, read more than one and never use just the load data from just one manual. Confirm that the data is good to avoid mistakes. Use online data sources from the manufacturers to confirm data. Almost every manufacturer has current and up to date data online now. Have fun and BE SAFE!
 
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I am not famliar with this particular powder but a quick search of reloading manuals showed it to be in the lower 35% of efficent powders in pretty much all 9MM bullet weights.
I guess if thats what you got then you gotta use it but I don;t think it would be on my shopping list for 9MM powder.
I use Acc #5 and Unique for the 9MM, seems to work well.
as i am not familiar with it thats all I got!
 
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