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I rarely post articles but with all the knee jerk reactions going on about the recent shootings, it's looking like red flag laws will be some sort of twisted compromise. This article is well done and well researched and I thought it was worth passing along and getting everyone's thoughts. Spoiler alert: I think they're a very bad idea.

https://noqreport.com/2019/08/06/three-reasons-red-flag-gun-laws-will-backfire/
 

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May be a good idea but it will never work and is too ripe for legal abuse. This is another lawyer scam. Make a charge, take them to court and make them hire an attorney to defend themselves. Then go to court again to regain your legal property!

How do you prevent a bitter spouse from filing a claim to gain an advantage in a divorce or custody hearing? How do you prevent this from becoming a neighbor dispute?
 

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I am a Veteran, I am a Husband, Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather.
I was labeled a Deplorable, now I'm a Nationalist rather than a Globalist! As a USA Veteran I will proudly wear that to protect our Nation! I proudly wear the same labels as you with my service being..USN 68-88. Yes, but how do you stop a bat crazy family member that is a real danger from killing the spouse and children? This subject really is one that needs a lot....and I mean A LOT of attention. Republicans and Democrats have to stop the impasse and be willing to compromise in developing a real workable solution to this. It is complicated. I can not even come close to seeing a real law that will eliminate innocent gun owners from being screwed by lies and unjust emotional fear by people, but someone needs to find a way. The other gun laws we have or ones proposed....nothing but political agenda stuff!
 

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May be a good idea but it will never work and is too ripe for legal abuse. This is another lawyer scam. Make a charge, take them to court and make them hire an attorney to defend themselves. Then go to court again to regain your legal property!

How do you prevent a bitter spouse from filing a claim to gain an advantage in a divorce or custody hearing? How do you prevent this from becoming a neighbor dispute?
Very true about the neighbor dispute. A guy I work with had that happen to him. His neighbor is a big time Democrat, lives on some sort of government disability, and tends to have a couple of junk cars around. Well, this guy I work with asked him one time to pull one of these cars out from in front of his house because it had been setting there for over a week. The neighbor tells him to "piss off" because it is out on the road and that is where it's gonna sit for now.

Well, he notified the police that a car had been setting along the road, and it had no plates or anything, so the cops "tagged" it, and the guy had to move it. About a month later, the police show up at his door and said they had a complaint that my coworker had "threatened" to shoot one of his neighbors. He is not that sort of a gun owner. Anyways, they told him they were collecting his firearms, had some sort of order from a judge, and they did.

He ended up having to go to court to settle the matter and get his guns back. Costed him lawyer fees and a couple of months of his time. He is a veteran like me, but that made no difference to the courts I guess. He did get his property back, but still had to go through all the BS. I couldn't believe it at first, but it happened to him.

Still has that crap eating neighbor too.
 

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I'm opposed of any "laws" that infringe on our 2nd Amendment, but I have to accept the fact that changes are going to be made. Band-aid "fixes" only allow a foot in the door, but the red flag law might be the lesser of alternative evils. Including protections from frivolous actions might make the law more "acceptable". Our existing laws haven't prevented any mass shootings, and new ones won't either. Question for those in the know - why isn't there mandatory jail time for gun related felonies ?? Seems to me, if I knew that if I used a gun to commit a crime and knew that I'd be spending a full 5 - 10 years behind bars, without parole, I'd sure think differently. Maybe too simple, or maybe unfair for the unwashed.
 

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The issue is, this is entirely to easy to abuse, it hearkens back to mccarthyism, all someone needs to do is make a accusation valid or not, and your labeled a threat and your guns are confiscated, and likely you will have to either go to a "specialist" for "help" or actually be placed in detention. And your rights wont be returned until some mental health "professional" says you are of sound mind again. These being the same people who come up with new mental illnesses for kicks or perhaps given some i have heard of, a drinking bet

I have heard that one thing being batted around is, making mass shootings a crime that brings the death penilty back on the table, not sure what good it will do when we consider it is very rare for a mass shooter to survive, they usually kill themselves or force the police to do it.

Universal background checks are another thing im hearing allot of, personally i dont have any issues with this one, id never sell to a person who didnt want to take one, or buy from someone who didn't want me to.

I could also see adding something to the check system that applied the laws of your state of residence to your check regardless of what state you are in when you buy, that would shut up places like CA and NY saying people just cross the boarder to buy the gun. Honestly i was surprised to learn this wasnt already in place.
 

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well universal background checks may be one of those innocent, sounds like a good idea things but its really in the details.
Like here in MY State IF you have a carry permit there is no requirement for a background check, simply because the permit background check is better . more reliable than the fed background check.
then they get it passed and their greedy little hands will want to begin charging for it.
remember if its a universal background check then we in the free states may have to comply with the background checks and rules set up in Kalifornia, Illinois, or New jersey.
personally i have (or was) in public Safety for 32 years, never been locked up, never had a warrant against me, been to many different places for training in many different secured locations, was in charge (with 2 othr captains) of one of the olympic venues as fire public/safety and under went a fed background check, and have had a concealed permit for decades, have had arrest powers, so really I don't think I really need a background check to purchase a weapon.
IF I commit a felony then I lose my conceal permit and that means then I must have a federal background check.
 

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Well, I’ve said it before and will say it again: the Patriot Act needs to be repealed. It has become an enormous affront to the American citizens. Whenever “We The People” are at risk of loss of their 4A and due process rights and susceptible to actions of poor information and even worse communication, it is bad legislation.
 

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I would be more in favor of a changed background check than these RED FLAG Laws. There is just too much room for abuse by everyone, citizens that make the complaint, Law enforcement which I can think of dozens of excuses they would use. Courts, you could get a liberal judge that dislikes guns or even just your politics. Then Come the Drs., lawyers and insurance thief's.

The biggest hold back to a Comprehensive Background Check is in the laws on the books, HIPAA Privacy in particular. As long as a persons mental heath or stability cannot be established then the check can only tell us if you've ever been arrested or Dishonorably Discharged from the military. I haven't actually checked facts but if I recall correctly the last 5 shooters all obtained their guns legally and passed a background check. As a matter of fact I cannot recall any of these shooters that obtained their guns illegally or questionably! Other than the Texas church shooter and the factory worker in Illinois that his FIOD was mishandled.
 
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I am a Veteran, I am a Husband, Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather.
I was labeled a Deplorable, now I'm a Nationalist rather than a Globalist! As a USA Veteran I will proudly wear that to protect our Nation! I proudly wear the same labels as you with my service being..USN 68-88. Yes, but how do you stop a bat crap crazy family member that is a real danger from killing the spouse and children? This subject really is one that needs a lot....and I mean A LOT of attention. Republicans and Democrats have to stop the impasse and be willing to compromise in developing a real workable solution to this. It is complicated. I can not even come close to seeing a real law that will eliminate innocent gun owners from being screwed by lies and unjust emotional fear by people, but someone needs to find a way. The other gun laws we have or ones proposed....nothing but political agenda BS!
I'm with you 100%. Something does need to be done to stop this carnage and more gun laws are not the only answer. Seams our Moral Compass is also broken. A Human Life has no value to many of these people. We have lost out Fear of God and even the possibility that God exists.
 

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I’m fine with it. To many instances where these people have made past comments or threats or in some cases even been confronted by authorities and years later pull off a mass shooting. The Ohio kid had a kill list and rape list back in high school was disciplined in school and questioned by the authorities because of it. A person like that should have been flagged and not allowed to buy a gun period. I’m all for 2nd amendment and legal gun ownership but if you make credible threats then your days of gun ownership should go bye bye.
 

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I’m fine with it. To many instances where these people have made past comments or threats or in some cases even been confronted by authorities and years later pull off a mass shooting. The Ohio kid had a kill list and rape list back in high school was disciplined in school and questioned by the authorities because of it. A person like that should have been flagged and not allowed to buy a gun period. I’m all for 2nd amendment and legal gun ownership but if you make credible threats then your days of gun ownership should go bye bye.
I'm not so sure about that. I'd say that if he went or was forced to go to psychiatric treatment, that is a credible threat and as far as I'm concerned, you can start infringing his rights if he hasn't shown any improvement by the time he can legally buy a gun. Having a list, of whatever kind, could lead to him being required to have treatment, but if it isn't, then I sure wouldn't call that a credible threat. I'm not sure what I'd call it, but even the police will tell you that you can't arrest somebody or infringe their rights because they are considering doing something. That happens every day.
 

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we have over 40 THOUSAND gun laws on the Books in the US. Not a single one of those "well intentioned" laws prevented the shootings in El Paso or Dayton and haven't stopped the weekly carnage in places like Chicago. If a person has made the decision to kill, maim or injure a large group of people, the weapon is a secondary thought. For El Paso, he was right near an international border checkpoint. The death toll would have been MUCH higher if he drove a truck into the crowds of people coming or going from Mexico. There's a million different chemical weapons you can make with household chemicals. There's means of creating and utilizing biological weapons and killing people in short order. The point is, the gun was an available choice the killer had. I can literally walk into any walmart in the US and get the materials needed to kill everyone in that store LEGALLY. If I can find out how to do it without having a degree in Chemistry than a million + others can look it up on the internet and follow a step by step on their iphones.
The only way to prevent a crazy person from harming large groups of people is to remove that person from society. If you're going to deprive a person of their freedoms, you damned sure better have just cause. a group of whiny libs isn't just cause. They say Freedom is dangerous. I would rather live with the dangers of freedom than the safety of enslavement.
 

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^^^^^^
Word!
 
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you can't arrest somebody or infringe their rights because they are considering doing something. That happens every day.
Did these shooter infringe the rights of the people whose lives they took? I believe so.

So maybe we also need to update and change the current HIPAA Privacy Laws? Not only may this slow down some of these shootings but it may also slow down and reduce the number of suicides in this country. James Holmes, the Colorado theater shooter had a Dr. that knew he was dangerous yet couldn't report him. He too could have been stopped!
 

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See the last line in my signature.
Yeah. Don’t look now but the goobermint has been legislating morality for darn near 60 years now. Look no further than the dawn of broadcast TV to look at how this has been done.

Did these shooter infringe the rights of the people whose lives they took? I believe so.

So maybe we also need to update and change the current HIPAA Privacy Laws? Not only may this slow down some of these shootings but it may also slow down and reduce the number of suicides in this country. James Holmes, the Colorado theater shooter had a Dr. that knew he was dangerous yet couldn't report him. He too could have been stopped!
Yes, he did infringe on the victim’s rights - thus the criminal nature of his acts. But until he actually picked up his firearm and fired his first shot his rights were protected and intact.

We can’t have it both ways. Have you reviewed the comments from parents and loved ones who have lost people to active shooters? About half of them, despite their personal loss, do NOT support any government intervention or additional gun laws; less than half of the remainder might take positions of gun control but that’s it.

We need to be careful not to get caught up in the old “The good of the many is more important than the good of the few” mentality. The US Constitution was designed to guard the individual rights and liberties of each American. It was also designed to treat each American citizen under equal color of law . .. . . We see how that has failed.

Thus my criticism for the Patriot Act. And it applies to any government supported program designed to “intervene” before any act takes place. Besides, the programs they already have in effect, designed to spot trouble, haven’t exactly bloomed to produce any effective outcomes.
 

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Here is what I think is happening. The Left is trying to get Trump to pass gun control laws, so they get what they want on his watch, he loses his base and loses the election. Then, when they come in power, they finish the job using these Mickey Mouse routines like "red flag" laws, and have an outright ban on semi-auto rifles and such, then go all in and ban handgun ownership too.

This is what I think they are planning/hoping/pushing for. I hope I'm wrong, but I still feel there is a certain amount of "orchestration" going on with all these mass shootings. They are all pretty much being carried out by Left Wing people.
 
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