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Would it be OK to shoot Cor-Bon +P ammo out of the PT145 Mil Pro?
Todd
Todd
PT145 and +P ammo?
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My thought is Yes is is safe to shoot some +P out of just about any current production handgun that is produced in a service caliber with exceptions such as the Rohrbaugh 9mm which specifically state no +P.
I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of the hot stuff though as the +P and +P+ loads do accelerate wear and tear on the mechanism. Your gun and your choice. Some ball loads are fairly hot too, especially some European stuff, gotta check the specs.
If you want to be on the safe side, limit your manufacturers of +P ammo to ones that are a member of SAMMI (of which Corbon is one). It is the standards organization for firearms. Members have to abide by the pressure limits for the various cartridges.
Also remember that the +P and +P+ designations don't specify a higher velocity, they specify a higher pressure which usually results in a higher velocity. I believe that there are top limits for the +P stuff but not for the +P+ which basically means that it is over the recommended max.... And ammo manufacturers load to pressure, not velocity.
There are +P loads in some calibers that are faster than other manufacturers +P+ loads in the same bullet weight.
An additional reason to use +P ammo as your social/carry/serious ammo is that the extra energy available to the mechanism should increase your reliablity in the event there is a bit of gunk or other resistence that needs to be overcome. This would also assist in the event that you are forced to fire your gun from a strange position and can't get a good firing grip (you might think, that would never happen to me, but do-do occurs!).
I just don't seem to be able to write many short posts do I?
Steelheart
I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of the hot stuff though as the +P and +P+ loads do accelerate wear and tear on the mechanism. Your gun and your choice. Some ball loads are fairly hot too, especially some European stuff, gotta check the specs.
If you want to be on the safe side, limit your manufacturers of +P ammo to ones that are a member of SAMMI (of which Corbon is one). It is the standards organization for firearms. Members have to abide by the pressure limits for the various cartridges.
Also remember that the +P and +P+ designations don't specify a higher velocity, they specify a higher pressure which usually results in a higher velocity. I believe that there are top limits for the +P stuff but not for the +P+ which basically means that it is over the recommended max.... And ammo manufacturers load to pressure, not velocity.
There are +P loads in some calibers that are faster than other manufacturers +P+ loads in the same bullet weight.
An additional reason to use +P ammo as your social/carry/serious ammo is that the extra energy available to the mechanism should increase your reliablity in the event there is a bit of gunk or other resistence that needs to be overcome. This would also assist in the event that you are forced to fire your gun from a strange position and can't get a good firing grip (you might think, that would never happen to me, but do-do occurs!).
I just don't seem to be able to write many short posts do I?
Steelheart
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Steelheart, I would check to see if the +P .45ACPs pressure is higher than other +Ps of the same caliber. For example Black Hills makes many different +P 9mm. loads. However one is loaded to 1350 feet per second with corresponding higher pressure than their normal slightly over 1200 fps. +P rounds. Could be too much of a good thing.
Corbon's catalog or website should have that info. If not then a call to them would be in order. Corbon has so many different brands and loads i.e. Powerball, and DPX just to name two. All their brands are loaded to different pressures.
As posted already by you some +P use probably would be fine. There are some incredibly high pressure rounds out there that are +P. Kind of like the difference between using hot loads in a Ruger .357 magnum versus a S&W model 19 or 66. The Ruger was built to take the steady pounding of the hottest .357 magnum loads over a long period of time.
The S&W revolvers mentioned start to come apart or have troubles under that same steady diet. The PT145 would not take a diet of the highest pressure 45s. You seem to know that already. Others new to shooting here may not.
Taurus needs to be more specific than they already are on this and this would clear the air as to what limits, if any are posted for their different models. Older manuals and the new catalogs say two different things. That sows confusion. I use the older manuals that I have for mine with the velocity limit. Lower velocity usually means lower pressure, but that is not a hard fast rule. Just a flexible guide line.
Corbon's catalog or website should have that info. If not then a call to them would be in order. Corbon has so many different brands and loads i.e. Powerball, and DPX just to name two. All their brands are loaded to different pressures.
As posted already by you some +P use probably would be fine. There are some incredibly high pressure rounds out there that are +P. Kind of like the difference between using hot loads in a Ruger .357 magnum versus a S&W model 19 or 66. The Ruger was built to take the steady pounding of the hottest .357 magnum loads over a long period of time.
The S&W revolvers mentioned start to come apart or have troubles under that same steady diet. The PT145 would not take a diet of the highest pressure 45s. You seem to know that already. Others new to shooting here may not.
Taurus needs to be more specific than they already are on this and this would clear the air as to what limits, if any are posted for their different models. Older manuals and the new catalogs say two different things. That sows confusion. I use the older manuals that I have for mine with the velocity limit. Lower velocity usually means lower pressure, but that is not a hard fast rule. Just a flexible guide line.
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A related FYI, Corbons DPX family is loaded to expansion size/depth and aren't all that hot. I do believe that they are still over standard pressure though.
Personally in 45acp I wouldn't chose to use +P for social ammo. I think there are many great loads in standard pressure. Now if we drift over to 9mm I want the extra kick.
Steelheart
Personally in 45acp I wouldn't chose to use +P for social ammo. I think there are many great loads in standard pressure. Now if we drift over to 9mm I want the extra kick.
Steelheart
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Yes indeed. And in a lot of the shorty barreled pistols that a lot of folks here own recovery time between shots would be longer than with standard loads. Since modern bullets in all the major calibers were designed to expand at slow speeds. Standard pressure rounds would be the ticket. At the old timers tall tale time at the gunshops here the subject goes to all the ills that everyone has. One of the big problems seems to be people who have shot numerous big bore rounds are having wrist,arm, and hand problems. The docs are telling these guys the trouble stems partly from all the heavy loads sent down range. I'm sure old age and other factors are at work, but that seems to be one of the significant factors according to the reports here. Not everyone is going to have this problem, but it is a factor to consider.
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Well, I bought some CorBon +P 200 grain JHP for home defense out of my Ruger P90. Lord knows if the Ruger can't take it nothing will!
Specifically I was interested in whether the DPX defense stuff would be OK for the Taurus. With the short barrel, I am concerned about low penetration and velocities with standard defense rounds. However, I think Speer also makes a short barrel version of their defense ammo.
What do you guys recommend for CCW defense ammo for the PT145?
Todd
Specifically I was interested in whether the DPX defense stuff would be OK for the Taurus. With the short barrel, I am concerned about low penetration and velocities with standard defense rounds. However, I think Speer also makes a short barrel version of their defense ammo.
What do you guys recommend for CCW defense ammo for the PT145?
Todd
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As far as the Corbon DPX, the Standard Pressure load was developed for short barrels. If you look at the barrel length on the right side it lists a 3" barrel for testing. And this was a real gun, not a vented test barrel, or whatever they are called.
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm
I'd prefer to carry anything from an American company (I don't have much faith in non-US expanding bullet designs) from their premium line (or anything from Corbon). The different bullet designs are slightly different and you may wish to pick one over another due to those differences. For example, Hornadys XTP bullet is reputed to not expand as much as other bullets but that will allow it to penetrate more. Hence the reason its my prefered social makarov ammo.
I wouldn't feel any less confident using Hydra-shoks vs Gold Dots vs Golden Saber vs Win. Rangers vs Corbon vs whatever. Using the premium bullet just reduces the odds of a bullet failing to expand.
If you aren't confident in the feed reliability of your gun, take a look at Federals EFMJ and Corbons PowerBall lines. They both have the profile of ball ammo but will still expand, but not as nicely as covnentional loads. They also have the advantage of being basically immune to clogging due to heavy clothing due to the hole coming "pre-clogged" for lack of a better term.
If the cost of the premium ammo is a concern, which it may be to some readers, look at the generic loads. WWB (Winchester White Box) frequently carried at Wal-Mart, supposedly uses a version of the Silvertip bullet without the shiny coating. Its been tweaked some over the years as well. For the times I am low or out of Corbon for my carry gun, my back-up load is WWB 9mm 115gr JHP. I know it will feed and its nice knowing I can get more locally.
Steelheart
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm
I'd prefer to carry anything from an American company (I don't have much faith in non-US expanding bullet designs) from their premium line (or anything from Corbon). The different bullet designs are slightly different and you may wish to pick one over another due to those differences. For example, Hornadys XTP bullet is reputed to not expand as much as other bullets but that will allow it to penetrate more. Hence the reason its my prefered social makarov ammo.
I wouldn't feel any less confident using Hydra-shoks vs Gold Dots vs Golden Saber vs Win. Rangers vs Corbon vs whatever. Using the premium bullet just reduces the odds of a bullet failing to expand.
If you aren't confident in the feed reliability of your gun, take a look at Federals EFMJ and Corbons PowerBall lines. They both have the profile of ball ammo but will still expand, but not as nicely as covnentional loads. They also have the advantage of being basically immune to clogging due to heavy clothing due to the hole coming "pre-clogged" for lack of a better term.
If the cost of the premium ammo is a concern, which it may be to some readers, look at the generic loads. WWB (Winchester White Box) frequently carried at Wal-Mart, supposedly uses a version of the Silvertip bullet without the shiny coating. Its been tweaked some over the years as well. For the times I am low or out of Corbon for my carry gun, my back-up load is WWB 9mm 115gr JHP. I know it will feed and its nice knowing I can get more locally.
Steelheart
According to www.taurustactical.com ALL Taurus mfg. firearms are built to use SAAMI spec +P ammo. My PT 145 Pro is always loaded with either CorBon DPX,Hornady TAP or CorBon PowR Ball .... all +P.
I believe this is more than a comment on the part of Taurus.It is more of a declaration from the manufacturer that +P ammo is 100% acceptable in all Taurus handguns.
I believe this is more than a comment on the part of Taurus.It is more of a declaration from the manufacturer that +P ammo is 100% acceptable in all Taurus handguns.
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True, but they had to run all that by their hot, juicy, and expensive lawyers first to get their sign off on this. ;D
Talked with Taurus in Miami today and the representative said definitly no +P or +P+ for PT145's It will Void warranty and could damage frame or recoil spring. Also they rated the Taurus Bullet 185gr Copper Jacket with a 5inch barrel. So 995 fps and 404ft lbs in a 5in would equate to 908fps and 338ft lbs in a 3.25 Inch PT145 . In the PT 145 manual the recommended bullet is a 230gr with 835 fps = 359ft lbs.MetalMan said:
So the Bullet they sell is over powered for the weapon it sells. So beware of +P or +P+ This leaves much room for speculation
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Interesting. Back to square one. The Tactical Catalog does confirm as posted by one of our members, that there is a statement saying all Taurus guns are +P qualified and it doesn't matter how many rounds are used. Then the Corporate people say different. Time to speak with managers on this.
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Found that out the hard way! My very first handgun, an S&W M19, suffered a cracked forcing cone from a steady diet of Federal 125 grn JHP's. It did say .357 Magnum on the barrel and I didn't know any better at the time, being new to Handguns. Got it fixed at S&W then traded it for a WWII Walther P38, which I still have.Qwiks draw said:
I have used +P loads in both the 9mm and .45 ACP, I just don't do it very often. Even then with Full Size handguns with good or slightly heavier Recoil Springs. Particularly with my Taurus PT945, I stick with standard pressure rounds for controlability of follow-up shots, for defense.
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Did this ever get resolved? It would be interesting to find out why the CS folks say no, but the handbook says yes?!?!?
Todd
Todd
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There's a thread over at TFL forum just like this. Then the guy goes and calls CS and of course they say no to +P for his older 85CH. So the responders to his question are dancing around that one.
I can say that I have used +P in a limited way in my 85CH revolver and do so with the semi-autos. But like jwc007 and others see no real need for +P in most of the guns or short barreled pistols for all the stated reasons by all above.
If the factory says it is ok in the catalog and it is a newer pistol in good repair, then go for it. Just realize that the performance level of +P in the CCW guns for the most part just causes wear, tear, and increases stresses on the gun over standard pressure loads with each round fired.
The little increase in performance is begot at the expense of battering and shortening the life of the gun.
I can say that I have used +P in a limited way in my 85CH revolver and do so with the semi-autos. But like jwc007 and others see no real need for +P in most of the guns or short barreled pistols for all the stated reasons by all above.
If the factory says it is ok in the catalog and it is a newer pistol in good repair, then go for it. Just realize that the performance level of +P in the CCW guns for the most part just causes wear, tear, and increases stresses on the gun over standard pressure loads with each round fired.
The little increase in performance is begot at the expense of battering and shortening the life of the gun.
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