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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just got my 709 a week ago and made one short visit to the range (due to the lack of 9mm ammo to buy). Got about 90 live rounds through it and am quite happy with the pistol. Was holding out for a S&W Shield, but gave up on that given the months long wait in line for one. Glad I got the 709 instead!

The 709 is just what I am looking for to complement my Springfield XDM 9mm 3.8 Compact. I do have one challenge with my particular 709, giving me the opportunity for my first interaction with Taurus Customer Service--and hence this post.

I cleaned the new 709 thoroughly and lubricated it before doing anything else. I then exercised the trigger by dry firing with snap caps many times. (BTW - all should note that the manual says that dry firing w/o snap caps will damage the gun.) Then it was off to the range for a short visit.

Have read a lot of comments about the long SA trigger pull, which is definitely different from my XDM, but since most of the trigger travel is without resistance it works for me. My problem was that once the trigger got to where something was going to happen, the pull was so hard that at first I thought the trigger wasn't working. Pulling hard enough the gun did fire, but the pull was really hard. Much more than I expected.

So, back to home and more dry firing to break in the trigger. Did 500 dual-action trigger pulls and 500 single-action trigger pulls. Figure that should be enough breaking in for the trigger. After all that, the DA pull was much easier than the SA pull. The Taurus specification for DA is 7-9 lbs and 5-7 lbs for SA. I could believe the DA was about right, but no way for the SA.

I figured that if I call Customer Service (CS) and just say the SA pull is hard (a subjective measure) I might get brushed off, so I went out and bought a Lyman Digital Trigger Pull Guage and checked each of my pistols. Sure enough, the 709's 10-pull average for DA was 6 lbs 3 oz whereas the SA was 10 lbs 6 oz. [For what it's worth, my XDM pulled an average of 5 lbs 15 oz and my SR22 did 4 lbs 12 oz in SA] Now I had objective measures and was ready to call Taurus CS.

That was last night. I will say that one really neat thing that Taurus does while you are on hold in the queue is to keep updating you with which caller number you are. That lets you know how things are progressing. Good move, Taurus. The CS person took my information and advised that she would have to get her bosses' approval for a return with a trigger pull complaint and would have to call me back today.

I was in and out today, so I initiated a call back to them in case I had missed their call. Got a different CS person who followed-up for me. Turns out, they have to get the OK from the bosses' boss and that person was already gone when I called.

She stated that their policy is that they just don't do returns for trigger pulls because everyone's expectation is different. The fact that the pull had been objectively measured with a digital trigger pull gauge and that the 10-pull average was as much as twice the Taurus specifications didn't seem to make any difference. They will decide if they will take the gun back for repair and they will let me know tomorrow!

I really like the 709, but this policy really blows me away. That's why I got the digital gauge--so it wouldn't be my subjective "feeling" about how hard the trigger is.

After the really helpful queue messages, I was expecting great things . . . but alas . . .

Well, I just had to vent tonight and hopefully tomorrow will bring a more encouraging response. That is the thing about businesses and their customer service. Statistically, if a person has a bad experience and it is corrected, they will tell three other people. If they have a bad experience, and it isn't resolved to the customer's satisfaction, the statistics say they will tell eleven people--and those stats were collected before the age of the internet and forums.

LEN
 

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Len, Is your trigger actually touching the frame when the single-action trigger finally functions? If so, maybe the trigger-bar throw is marginal or the trigger bar is bent. There is a small "finger" at the back end of the trigger bar that actually trips the single-action sear and some of these "fingers" were on the short side. Several posters here had a similar problem (hard trigger) that was corrected by replacing the trigger bar (by Taurus) or straightening the trigger bar (DIY). You might want to search for some of those postings.
Don't waste your time with double-action dry fire, it won't help improve the single-action trigger pull (only one that matters).
 

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That's odd when I got my 709 it had the same problem. I called Taurus and explained it to them and I had a shipping label by 2:00 pm I packed the pistol and sent it in the next morning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Scott, thanks for the note about the DA dry fires. Wasn't sure if it made a difference re: breaking in, but just in case wanted to be able to tell Taurus that it had been done.

I had seen a few posts re: hard trigger, but hadn't seen any solutions (in my somewhat brief checks). Will check further.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That's odd when I got my 709 it had the same problem. I called Taurus and explained it to them and I had a shipping label by 2:00 pm I packed the pistol and sent it in the next morning.
It seemed rather odd to me as well that a trigger pull (digitally measured) so far out of spec needed upper management approval for a return.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Len, Is your trigger actually touching the frame when the single-action trigger finally functions? If so, maybe the trigger-bar throw is marginal or the trigger bar is bent. There is a small "finger" at the back end of the trigger bar that actually trips the single-action sear and some of these "fingers" were on the short side. Several posters here had a similar problem (hard trigger) that was corrected by replacing the trigger bar (by Taurus) or straightening the trigger bar (DIY). You might want to search for some of those postings.
Don't waste your time with double-action dry fire, it won't help improve the single-action trigger pull (only one that matters).
OK, so I have recleaned the pistol and examined it carefully. The trigger bar does not appear to be bent. I noticed that the face of the firing pin that contacts the sear seemed to have a hint of horizontal ridges on it that I thought might make the release have some extra friction, so I polished the face with a Dremel polishing disk.

Re-lubricated and reassembled and tested with the digital gauge. Same results--still over 10 lbs average! So, I wait for the call from Taurus.

BTW, I have now checked the other posts on the hard trigger subject.
 

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Respectfully, I have found that the trigger pull is different on virtually every model of handgun I have ever fired. For me, it has always been a matter of becoming familiar with each new firearm's characteristics and working with it until I become proficient and comfortable with it.

The trigger pull on a Taurus Millennium series pistol is different from the trigger pull on a Taurus Slim series pistol, for example.

Comparing the trigger pull on a Taurus handgun to other manufacturer's firearms seems like a fair thing to do for determining one's personal preference on which pistol would be better suited for them, but to expect one manufacturer's product to perform "like" another manufacturer's product doesn't quite fair to me.

I will be interested in reading how this all works out for you.
 
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I had this issue on my 24/7 G2, a 10lb pull on SA. I did a very quick minor polish on the sear and that got it to 7lb, which is still 2lb more than id prefer.
 

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Start writing down the names of the CS reps that you deal with. When one of them seems reasonable, try to always talk to them. At this point, I would follow up with a written letter to the CEO, explaining the problem with your gun, and the response from CS (why you need names, personalizing it can teach a valuable lesson to the CS team). Send it certified, return receipt requested, so that you have both a record of delivery, and a name.

Despite anything electronic or mechanical in the CS system, it is still the humans that we end up talking with. If they have issues, they need to be corrected. Do NOT try to polish anything until after a decision is made by Taurus. That will complicate the issue.
 

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Start writing down the names of the CS reps that you deal with. When one of them seems reasonable, try to always talk to them. At this point, I would follow up with a written letter to the CEO, explaining the problem with your gun, and the response from CS (why you need names, personalizing it can teach a valuable lesson to the CS team). Send it certified, return receipt requested, so that you have both a record of delivery, and a name.

Despite anything electronic or mechanical in the CS system, it is still the humans that we end up talking with. If they have issues, they need to be corrected. Do NOT try to polish anything until after a decision is made by Taurus. That will complicate the issue.
Yeah definitely dont polish till you sort it out with Taurus first. I was just giving my experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Respectfully, I have found that the trigger pull is different on virtually every model of handgun I have ever fired. For me, it has always been a matter of becoming familiar with each new firearm's characteristics and working with it until I become proficient and comfortable with it.

The trigger pull on a Taurus Millennium series pistol is different from the trigger pull on a Taurus Slim series pistol, for example.

Comparing the trigger pull on a Taurus handgun to other manufacturer's firearms seems like a fair thing to do for determining one's personal preference on which pistol would be better suited for them, but to expect one manufacturer's product to perform "like" another manufacturer's product doesn't quite fair to me.

I will be interested in reading how this all works out for you.
10-4 on not expecting one model to be the same as a different model -- that is not what I was expecting. The Taurus Slim Series Instruction Manual that was packed with the 709 (which is the same as the one that you can download from the Taurus website) on page 13 lists the specifications for the weapon. there it states that for all of the Slim series models, the SA trigger pull specification is 5-7 lbs. I only expect what Taurus said it was supposed to do. Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying in my original post.

I will do a separate post in a few moments describing how it has all turned out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So This is How it All Worked Out - The Bottom Line

It has not worked out very well is the short story! Now, for the longer story . . .

I just finished talking to a Customer Service manager named Ali who was very pleasant and sympathetic but was not able to change the final outcome.

The bottom line is that Taurus has changed the SA trigger pull specification to 8-10 lbs (from the previous 5-7 lbs) and if it were sent in to them and inspected, it would be returned without anything being done because it is "in spec"--notwithstanding that the packaged Instruction Manual and the one that you can download from their website says 5-7 lbs. At the bottom of their website they have a caveat about specifications changing without notice which is not included in the instruction manual. So, tuff luck to their customer.

I had gotten the clear message from one of the customer service reps that I talked to earlier this morning that this was the final decision from Taurus, so I took the gun back to Cabela's where I purchased it. Fortunately, I live within an hours drive of a Cabela's here in the Seattle, WA area. Of course, Cabela's policy is that all gun sales are final.

Cabela's was willing to send it back to Taurus for me, but given the position that Taurus has taken that would have been an exercise in futility. I talked to the manager of the firearms sales and pointed out that they had sold me a product that was not as advertised and since the manufacturer would not make it right, I expected that Cabela's would make it right for their customer.

At first it was, "We aren't responsible . . ." etc., but with some prodding noting that this was not buyer's remorse but that the product they sold did not work as advertised and that they actually were fronting for Taurus, the manager made a decision to preserve Cabela's reputation and offered me a store merchandise credit for the full purchase amount plus the tax. Cabela's gets it, too bad Taurus doesn't.

So, since it is a store credit, I will have to wait forever for Cabela's to have the Smith & Wesson Shield 9mm available. But at least I will end up with a real gun made by a company with real class.

Unfortunately, I had already snagged two extra mags from a local gun shop for the 709, so I will have to find a buyer for them. I also ordered a 709 specific holster from The Holster Store and it has already been shipped, so I will see if I can return it for a restocking fee.

I have learned my lesson. I will never, ever again do business with Taurus. Never!
 
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