[VA Caver]

I talked to a supervisor at the Roanoke Circuit Court on Friday and he told me that my DD-214 will not work as proof of training since I retired from the military 13 years ago. He said I'm not current and that no one who provided a 214 as their proof has been approved by the judge.

HUH? How can he do that?

The State Police regs say: "5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;"

So, my 214 is proof...how can the judge say no? Better yet, how do I fight it without pissing him off?

 

[mrglock]

Sounds like you might have the advantage of the written law but sometimes they local courts/law enforcement don't necessarily play fair. Owning a silencer here in TX is supposed to be legal also (following the guidelines of course) but in my neck of the woods the local Sheriff won't sign off on the form!!

 

[Pierce]

I talked to a supervisor at the Roanoke Circuit Court on Friday and he told me that my DD-214 will not work as proof of training since I retired from the military 13 years ago. He said I'm not current and that no one who provided a 214 as their proof has been approved by the judge.

HUH? How can he do that?

The State Police regs say: "5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;"

So, my 214 is proof...how can the judge say no? Better yet, how do I fight it without pissing him off?

From the information you have provided I think you have an uphill battle on your hands. It looks like the judge ruled that you have been out of the service sufficiently long enough to render your 214 worthless as proof that you can competently carry a firearm. Now, if it is the case that he is not accepting any 214s as proof, you certainly should appeal the decision based upon the regulation you cite. But if it the issue is actually with the length of time it has been since you were discharged, you might be better off just taking the required training course. Just my 2 cents.

 

[VA Caver]

From the information you have provided I think you have an uphill battle on your hands. It looks like the judge ruled that you have been out of the service sufficiently long enough to render your 214 worthless as proof that you can competently carry a firearm. Now, if it is the case that he is not accepting any 214s as proof, you certainly should appeal the decision based upon the regulation you cite. But if it the issue is actually with the length of time it has been since you were discharged, you might be better off just taking the required training course. Just my 2 cents.

I agree...to a point. The regulation does not place a time limit, so how can the judge arbitrarily say too much time has expired? Yes, I agree that taking the class is not a big deal, but 45 bucks is 45 bucks, and if the judge is wrong, I'd like to see him corrected (as if THAT would ever happen).

 

[Pierce]

Need I say... judges. They seem to have some wide latitude in interpreting the laws. It wouldn't hurt to appeal the decision, though.

 

[stephpd]

Don't ever try to correct a Judge!

Might try appealing his ruling, lawyer could cost more than the class.
Judges don't have much regard for a regular Joe in court.
In court Judges think they are god.

 

[mrglock]

In court Judges think they are god.

So TRUE!!

 

[VA Caver]

I just took the paperwork to the court and asked the clerk supervisor to show me the regulation containing a time limit on DD-214's. He pulled out the State Police regs and when I asked him to point out the part on time limits, he said, "I'm NOT going to argue with you, Sir."

I told him I wan't arguing, merely pointing out what the regs actually say. He said the judges don't see it that way, but to go ahead and submit the paperwork...but don't expect it to get approved.

So, it seems the good judges of Roanoke have taken it upon themselves to place additional restrictions on written law.

 

[BigBadBull]

I could have used my DD too when I applied, but it was just as easy to go take a NRA Basic Pistol course for ~$60.

I'm still waiting for my call back, seems to me they're going to take the full time on getting back to me.

 

[threefortyduster]

You live in Virginia...I'm surprised guns are still allowed in state. They seem to have their own way of doing things there.

Not to bang on your state, but damn..I hate that place. I drive through there every year, and we don't spend a dime in that state because of their policies on everything.

 

[BigBadBull]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Maryland, Duster? Man I hate that place.

VA is one of the better states in my opinion for firearm owners.

 

[ronb5538]

You live in Virginia...I'm surprised guns are still allowed in state. They seem to have their own way of doing things there.

Not to bang on your state, but damn..I hate that place. I drive through there every year, and we don't spend a dime in that state because of their policies on everything.

+1 on Maryland. And don't confuse us with Washington (D.C.). Guns are like water around here ... they are everywhere.

 

[Rabid_Dog]

If you want to go high profile you may want to contact the NRA's legal counsel. They will take on cases they feel may set a precedent at preserving second amendment rights. Not sure if your case is one they'd take or if this is right contact info:

NRA Office of General Counsel
11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030.
(703) 267-1250

 

[Robby]

Ok, according to the posting in NRA-ILA site. In Virginia.

The court may require proof that the applicant has demonstrated
competence with a handgun. Proof includes completion of
a firearm training course offered by the NRA, the state, or
a school; participation in organized shooting competition
or military service; or any governmental police agency
firearms course; previously held a firearm carrying license.

or

Any person denied a permit may present a petition for
review to the Court of Appeals. The petition for review
shall be filed within sixty days of the expiration of the time
for requesting a hearing, or if a hearing is requested, within
sixty days of the entry of the final order of the circuit court
following the hearing. If the decision to deny the permit is
reversed upon appeal, taxable costs incurred by the person
shall be paid by the Commonwealth

Now, that judge may be within his powers, but there is the option to petition for review of the decision.

 

[VA Caver]

The law says:

The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:


Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services

So, submitting a copy of my DD-214 is not good enough? Wrong. According to the regs it is. And requiring me to take a class instead of accepting my 214, the court is now requiring me to submit additional demonstration of competence.

 

[Robby]

Oh I totally agree with you! Even though I have my 30 some year old dd214. I was only saying that you do have options to petition if denied.

I have heard before that some judges, in various states have chosen to make their own rules or read them to suit their beliefs. I believe someone here said, in certain places in Texas, and other states judges, sheriffs and such have done an INTERPRETATION of the law, that does not match what was written.

 

[kashdaddy]

The laws are always twisted up these days..............and Bush have made it worse.

I would say, just go ahead and take the class and cut the corners and get your permit. After all, the class does have a range session and you will enjoy the extra practice.

Judges tends to be set in their way and grouchy these days (not all of them)

 

[BigBadBull]

I agree with KashDaddy...

Taking the course isn't a bad idea, and if it can get you the permit quicker, I'd do it. Who knows how much longer anyone would have an opportunity without jumping through more hoops, or even at all!

As far as laws, and interpretations... I think it just might be more along of the lines people in general don't like being told they're wrong. Know what I mean?

 

[VA Caver]

The class does not have a range session...that's what's so stupid about the process. Someone who's never handled a firearm can go get a permit with a piece of paper...

 

[JRShaw]

Sounds as if you might need to get in touch with your local state representative and let him/her know how the rules are being interepreted by this judge. Is the judge elected or appointed?