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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The original thread is here;http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/reloads/388650-problem-45acp-load-still.html if you want or need to go back.

Recap, this all revolves around a EAA Witness that has a short leade and a tight chamber which was causing chambering and extraction problems. Well after much fooling around I was able to get the rounds to pass the plunk test and believed everything was good to go. NOT! Today's range visit proved a challenge with these loads and this gun. Out of 50 or so rounds I had 7 or 8 that still would not chamber correctly and these rounds wouldn't allow the gun to go into full battery and reset the trigger. Also had 3 FTF even though the primer looked like it had a perfect strike with a nice pin mark. Odd thing also is there were no extraction problems

These same loads perform flawlessly in out Springfield XD. Back to the drawing board I guess.
 

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Did any of the case mouths snag and deform during loading into the chamber? I had a problem like this with my Ruger KP-90. The feed ramp wasn't set correctly and some careful polishing and lapping cured the problem. But I still had to abandon the semi-wadcutters I was using, too. Oh well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The cases are all sorted by headstamp just to try and add some consistency to the problem and each finished round was plunk tested into the barrel. Did have a bit of trouble with the factory loads I ran thru it. This all started with the reloads. Also at this point I am using plated RN and Berry's flat point.
 

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My next question was about factory rounds and that it's might not be your handloads, in such case it might have to go back for tweaking. Many issues like this are magazine related, but if all act the same way it may eliminate that avenue. We could shoot together next week and I'll bring my 45 ACP reloads done with the factory crimp die to see if there's any change with those.
 
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The original thread is here;http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/reloads/388650-problem-45acp-load-still.html if you want or need to go back.

Recap, this all revolves around a EAA Witness that has a short leade and a tight chamber which was causing chambering and extraction problems. Well after much fooling around I was able to get the rounds to pass the plunk test and believed everything was good to go. NOT! Today's range visit proved a challenge with these loads and this gun. Out of 50 or so rounds I had 7 or 8 that still would not chamber correctly and these rounds wouldn't allow the gun to go into full battery and reset the trigger. Also had 3 FTF even though the primer looked like it had a perfect strike with a nice pin mark. Odd thing also is there were no extraction problems

These same loads perform flawlessly in out Springfield XD. Back to the drawing board I guess.
If you're not using one of these for your 'plunk test', I'd go here.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/HOR...VxbbACh2Oyw85EAQYBiABEgI4OfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 
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well I have weighed in on this before as you are aware my friend.
IF the gun runs on factory ammo then its in the reload or some component of the reload.
IF the weapon (45 acp in this case) runs on factory round nose 230 grain then I don't know what or IF the manufacture can/will do to help you, but I would be contacting them to ask.
Just for the record and I know this is old news to you but for the others here.
I have 4 EAA (Tanfoglio) weapons, 2 in 38 Super and 2 in 10 MM, one is a brand spanking new 10 MM that I just took to the range, I ran 200 flawless accurate rounds through it with not a single hitch, It was cleaned and lubed prior to the range trip.
I was using flat point reloads in it. the only problem child I have had recently with my reload was a CZ 97 BD that had the same problem that you mention, failure to go into battery about 15-20% of the time, this was with 200 grain Flat points .
the profile of the projectile was to wide and I simply shortened up the OAL by a couple thousand and it has since ran 100 %.
I can't say anything else as to your problem except if it doesn't function on factory 230 ball then I would contact EAA and never ever mention shooting reloads in it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Czechbikr I will take you up on that offer. It is too bad we just missed each other yesterday! Email as to when you're available. It will be fun.

olfarhors, my friend I have to agree 100% I just haven't been able to determine where the flaw is. When I measure it everything is within spec. I've even tried the trick jwc007 suggested over at the CZ forum and I am well below that measurement. The funny part about yesterday is that it seemed the Flat Point Berry's ran better than the RN. So whatever this flaw is it cannot be much because all this stuff runs w/o incident in the XD. Not a single hiccup.
 
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Sounds to me, and I am just guessing, that your particular gun having tighter than normal tolerances may be real picky to bullet ogive design. You can match overall length with factory ammo that works, however if the ogive is slightly different it can create feeding issues.

If I wanted to get a specific bullet to work I would load up dummy rounds it lengths varying by .001", say 10 rounds below and 10 rounds above your targeted length. Place a tight tapper crimp on them to help them hold up to multiple chamberings and start seeing what length feed properly. Then from there adjust the load data if needed to stay within safe pressures. Seating and crimping in separate stages makes this easier, especially crimping with the Lee Factory Crimp Die.
 

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Check your OAL.
 
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Czechbikr I will take you up on that offer. It is too bad we just missed each other yesterday! Email as to when you're available. It will be fun.

olfarhors, my friend I have to agree 100% I just haven't been able to determine where the flaw is. When I measure it everything is within spec. I've even tried the trick jwc007 suggested over at the CZ forum and I am well below that measurement. The funny part about yesterday is that it seemed the Flat Point Berry's ran better than the RN. So whatever this flaw is it cannot be much because all this stuff runs w/o incident in the XD. Not a single hiccup.
As a machinist I'll tell you, "in spec" does NOT guarantee it will work.

There's a lot going on there. chamber diameter, rifling lead-in, feed angle, slide speed, slide pressure returning to battery.

Having to seat bullets to a depth making rounds shorter than "spec" to assure feed reliability would not surprise me, at all. Back off your powder weight a bit though.



All the Best,
D. White
 

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Will factory ammo feed or not? You say barrel has a short leade and a tight chamber, if factory ammo won't feed then the chamber may need reamed and/or throated. If factory ammo feeds then it is your reloads.
 

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Measure your headspace, .45acp minimum is .898. No special tools required take your slide and barrel, measure an empty case put it in the barrel and push the barrel into lockup, then take feeler gages and see how much thickness will fit between the case and the breach face, add that to your case length and that will be your headspace. Even if within spec it will help you determine your best COAL.
 

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Just a note of caution here!
remember that IF you are using a true SWC design projectile then case capacity is reduced quite a bit due to so much projectile being inside the case, so you might want to reduce powder load until you find whats safe in your weapon.
same goes with all Copper and frangible projectiles, them puppies are really long for their weight.
 
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If your gun won't shoot/ chamber factory ammo, there is a defect with the barrel and you need to send it back to Taurus and get the barrel fixed/ replaced. Yes, some guns are picky about the ammo you use, but factory ammo will at least pass the plunk test.It may be something as simple as a burr somewhere in the chamber, but let Taurus fix it. If you must do something, take some factory ammo to your LGS that sells Taurus pistols and ask to borrow a Witness barrel for a plunk test. If it works flawlessly, as I think it will, it will prove there is an issue with the barrel in your pistol.
 

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It only took twenty thousandth deeper to in the case to fix my problem. I don't know how much that would affect the pressure but for me I didn't adjust the powder load because I am nowhere the max powder load with my test loads. I always keep an eye on my cases for any pressure problems at the range when picking them up and at home when I am getting ready to deprime them
GOOD LUCK
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
OAL has been checked, rechecked and checked again using a number of different methods.

As a machinist I'll tell you, "in spec" does NOT guarantee it will work.


No kidding. Been there before also.

Aggie, I do believe you've sent and posted those before. Thanks for the offer but I do have schematics already.

All factory ammunition fill feed, cycle and fire w/o incident in this gun.

oso, I will follow your advice and run the check you've posted.

olfarhors, I am not loading SWC bullets, everything I use is either RN or Flat Point.

Now while I was gone over the weekend I had some nice quiet time to contemplate this and it then dawned on me that I also have some nice brand new never been fired Xtreme 45acp brass the was received from their rebate offer. I am also going to load some of those and see it that makes a difference. I'm thinking also that maybe by sizing die may be out of spec or something.

Again as this gun fires factory just fine if I cannot resolve this I will replace this gun with something a little more forgiving and will fire my hand loads as the XD does.
 

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If your gun won't shoot/ chamber factory ammo, there is a defect with the barrel and you need to send it back to Taurus and get the barrel fixed/ replaced. Yes, some guns are picky about the ammo you use, but factory ammo will at least pass the plunk test.It may be something as simple as a burr somewhere in the chamber, but let Taurus fix it. If you must do something, take some factory ammo to your LGS that sells Taurus pistols and ask to borrow a Witness barrel for a plunk test. If it works flawlessly, as I think it will, it will prove there is an issue with the barrel in your pistol.

ahh to each their own but I doubt that I would sent a Taurus back to Taurus to work on, I know that I would not send a Tanfogllio (EAA) back to them.
talk about a long repair wait time!!!----------:eek:
 
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