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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was running around YouTube looking for videos on a couple of handguns I'm interested in purchasing and found this video.

I found it interesting and informative and pretty much what I've seen in my many years investigating shootings when I was working as Crime Scene Investigator in the Homicide Division. I'm sure many will have some criticisms about how the testing was produced, and he addresses that early on. But, it does give food-for-thought and some curiosity.

How Many Houses Will A Bullet Actually Go Through??? - YouTube
 

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One of the best wall tests I have viewed. His results are very similar to others I have watched. I live in middle of nowhere , so not as concerned as many are about over penetration. I keep my HD shotgun ( a 20ga semi auto) loaded with 9 pellet buckshot running at 1350 FPS.
 

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I think the .44 mag would've done better had he not used a hollow point.
 

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well by experience of going to a FEW gang banger shootings, including drive bys this is some that stood out for me.
1) older one story house about 70 feet off the street, appeared to be 9 MM ammo, went through outer wall, inner wall, second inner wall and then projectiles laying in floor of bedroom and on bed, this was an older house that had plaster walls.
2) single wide trailer, sitting long ways to the street about 20-25 feet off the road, 45 acp went through front outer wall of trailer, went through inner wall of living room, went though second wall of living room and landed in hallway and lodged in various walls, several projectiles did this.
I have seen many, many automobiles that projectiles went completely through them from one side to the other.
the old grab the dope and drive off trick!
 

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well by experience of going to a FEW gang banger shootings, including drive bys this is some that stood out for me.
1) older one story house about 70 feet off the street, appeared to be 9 MM ammo, went through outer wall, inner wall, second inner wall and then projectiles laying in floor of bedroom and on bed, this was an older house that had plaster walls.
2) single wide trailer, sitting long ways to the street about 20-25 feet off the road, 45 acp went through front outer wall of trailer, went through inner wall of living room, went though second wall of living room and landed in hallway and lodged in various walls, several projectiles did this.
I have seen many, many automobiles that projectiles went completely through them from one side to the other.
the old grab the dope and drive off trick!
To expound upon what my esteemed colleague has brought forward.

1) plaster and lath walls typically have nothing between except air. the plaster being a skim coat and the lath being approximately 1" wide by 1/4-3/8" thick.

2) trailer houses are meant to be 'mobile' so to save weight the interior walls will be built using 1X2"s and 1/4" sheetrock with nothing except air between.
 
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Funny, I just watched this video. 12 gauge didn't get the penetration, but it sure made a good impression.
 

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To expound upon what my esteemed colleague has brought forward.

1) plaster and lath walls typically have nothing between except air. the plaster being a skim coat and the lath being approximately 1" wide by 1/4-3/8" thick.

2) trailer houses are meant to be 'mobile' so to save weight the interior walls will be built using 1X2"s and 1/4" sheetrock with nothing except air between.
YEP and even with the standard now days Stud and sheet rock , it all depends on what the projectile strikes going through the walls and even at what angle it hits stuff.
all these test are just ideas of what will happen, much like performance of self defense rounds and what is /where the hit occurs.
so just decide if you like plastic tips, hollow points or phillips head noses and be comfortable, the most import things are they work 120% of the time in YOUR weapon and that YOU can put them on/in the target.
 
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Well the story of The Three Little Pigs goes on
I should have built a brick house
Brick Veener or solid Brick--the Wolf asked me and so i forwarded the question to you guys!
129657d1444689806-guns-holocaust-gun-free-zone.jpg
 

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Good video. It would have been interesting to see the results with some Judge-style .410 loads, but no matter what someone will always have another "shoulda includeded ____."
 

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I subscribe to his channel and seen that video. As far as his demonstrating real world penetration characteristics of these rounds I believe it presents valuable results beyond what most show using a gel block and a single thin barrier. Sure milk jugs full of water are entertaining but that does not represent residential structures like his did.

The only problem I had with it is houses are more than a foot or two apart which means that the projectile has to cover a further distance between impacts slowing it more significantly than the distance between his simulation walls.

Next semester is forensic ballistics courses so I may revisit his video just to determine how flawed his experiment was. I finish my Master's in criminal justice with a focus on forensic psychology in 2.5 semesters and these type of subjects intrigue me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I subscribe to his channel and seen that video. As far as his demonstrating real world penetration characteristics of these rounds I believe it presents valuable results beyond what most show using a gel block and a single thin barrier. Sure milk jugs full of water are entertaining but that does not represent residential structures like his did.

The only problem I had with it is houses are more than a foot or two apart which means that the projectile has to cover a further distance between impacts slowing it more significantly than the distance between his simulation walls.

Next semester is forensic ballistics courses so I may revisit his video just to determine how flawed his experiment was. I finish my Master's in criminal justice with a focus on forensic psychology in 2.5 semesters and these type of subjects intrigue me.
Interesting...forensic Psychology and ballistics forensic are far apart from one another two completely different fields of science.

I have BS degree in Criminal Justice...one of the earlier degrees. I taught a class in basic forensics...fingerprinting...fingerprint classification...fired bullet and cartridge case analyses, and so on...it was interesting.

I spent half my career in the Homicide Division of a very large SE Texas city. I've seen too many shootings scenes to even begin to count. Sure there are "flaws", if you will, in the video. No furniture...now bullets striking studs in the wall...no brick on the outside of the walls...studying internal, external, and terminal ballistics is interesting as there are so many different caliber and bullet designs...there are no guarantees.

Thinking back three decades now, there weren't too many instances during the investigations to find bullets entering neighbor's homes except when they passed through windows.
 

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Interesting...forensic Psychology and ballistics forensic are far apart from one another two completely different fields of science.

I have BS degree in Criminal Justice...one of the earlier degrees. I taught a class in basic forensics...fingerprinting...fingerprint classification...fired bullet and cartridge case analyses, and so on...it was interesting.

I spent half my career in the Homicide Division of a very large SE Texas city. I've seen too many shootings scenes to even begin to count. Sure there are "flaws", if you will, in the video. No furniture...now bullets striking studs in the wall...no brick on the outside of the walls...studying internal, external, and terminal ballistics is interesting as there are so many different caliber and bullet designs...there are no guarantees.

Thinking back three decades now, there weren't too many instances during the investigations to find bullets entering neighbor's homes except when they passed through windows.
Yeah I had a couple slots for electives so being a firearms enthusiast I figured it was just another feather to plop in my cap. I am really interested in trying to get on the Sheriff's Dept. as a CIT officer. Being I am pushing 50 I cannot get on the state or city PD due to retirement structures. They cut off at 35. If not I will be working in inmate re-entry case management for DOC. It sounds like you had an interesting career in the criminal justice field. I passed all my crime scene investigation courses with flying colors. I have spread myself out all over the place in CJ studies but to work in rehabilitation type services in my opinion you have to be able to understand beyond the psychological aspect of a criminal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Yeah I had a couple slots for electives so being a firearms enthusiast I figured it was just another feather to plop in my cap. I am really interested in trying to get on the Sheriff's Dept. as a CIT officer. Being I am pushing 50 I cannot get on the state or city PD due to retirement structures. They cut off at 35. If not I will be working in inmate re-entry case management for DOC. It sounds like you had an interesting career in the criminal justice field. I passed all my crime scene investigation courses with flying colors. I have spread myself out all over the place in CJ studies but to work in rehabilitation type services in my opinion you have to be able to understand beyond the psychological aspect of a criminal.

WOW...50 years old and obtaining your Masters is quite an accomplishment, and I commend you. I wish I had taken the opportunity during the 1980s via the LEEP (Law Enforcement Education Program) and obtain my Masters which would have been completely paid for...all I needed to do was drive to Sam Houston State University once a month for about 18 months...intensive program. I had a friend who did it and went on to the DEA.

Good luck in your endeavors.
 

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WOW...50 years old and obtaining your Masters is quite an accomplishment, and I commend you. I wish I had taken the opportunity during the 1980s via the LEEP (Law Enforcement Education Program) and obtain my Masters which would have been completely paid for...all I needed to do was drive to Sam Houston State University once a month for about 18 months...intensive program. I had a friend who did it and went on to the DEA.

Good luck in your endeavors.
Thank you, I spent 22 years working for a Norfolk and Southern Railroad intermodal subsidiary as a operations manager and when NS shut that division down nobody would hire me due to my ending salary. How does being an operations manager for an intermodal service provider over qualify you for a district management position for Taco Bell? Anyway after 18 months of no luck getting in somewhere I decided to reinvent myself by getting an education. Too old for city or state law enforcement but not too old to work in parole, probation, or DOC. I also figured if all else fails I could try getting on with DA investigator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thank you, I spent 22 years working for a Norfolk and Southern Railroad intermodal subsidiary as a operations manager and when NS shut that division down nobody would hire me due to my ending salary. How does being an operations manager for an intermodal service provider over qualify you for a district management position for Taco Bell? Anyway after 18 months of no luck getting in somewhere I decided to reinvent myself by getting an education. Too old for city or state law enforcement but not too old to work in parole, probation, or DOC. I also figured if all else fails I could try getting on with DA investigator.

Let me say this in all honesty...you didn't miss a thing...similar to friends of mine who were in Vietnam (I went to Japan). They say I didn't miss a thing.

Law enforcement was lousy pay...working weekends and holidays...and creating many family issues along the way. While satisfying in some ways such as putting murderers and other violent people behind bars, I wouldn't do it again.

I would have made the military a career...I would have attended ROTC when I returned to school and returned to the service in electronics. I was a electronic communications specialist with the Army Security Agency (ASA). I come from at least now a five generation military family with my great grandfather during the Indian Wars of the old west, the Spanish American War, and the Philippine Insurrection, grandfather in WWI, father WWII (fighter pilot), me during the latter years of Vietnam, and now my son, who is a Master Sergeant in the Air Force. I would have retired in about the same amount of time.

I could not work with known criminal in probations and parole and especially DOC.
 

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Let me say this in all honesty...you didn't miss a thing...similar to friends of mine who were in Vietnam (I went to Japan). They say I didn't miss a thing.

Law enforcement was lousy pay...working weekends and holidays...and creating many family issues along the way. While satisfying in some ways such as putting murderers and other violent people behind bars, I wouldn't do it again.

I would have made the military a career...I would have attended ROTC when I returned to school and returned to the service in electronics. I was a electronic communications specialist with the Army Security Agency (ASA). I come from at least now a five generation military family with my great grandfather during the Indian Wars of the old west, the Spanish American War, and the Philippine Insurrection, grandfather in WWI, father WWII (fighter pilot), me during the latter years of Vietnam, and now my son, who is a Master Sergeant in the Air Force. I would have retired in about the same amount of time.

I could not work with known criminal in probations and parole and especially DOC.
I always thought that I wanted to put bad people in a deserved place; now I want to help those coming out realize they are not the summation of their mistakes that life is about choices and if you make the right ones there is a better life waiting for them. I have a connection in the juvenile system and she says she'll put in a good word for me. I may go that route; I have not taken any options off the table at this point. One thing I have ruled out is working with sex offenders I cannot and will not. I could deal with anything at all but rapists and child predators are out of the question. My wife told me that it was probably best I hadn't become a cop because I would have been in trouble for how I would react to arriving at the scene of child abuse and sexual assaults. I have zero tolerance for such things.
 
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