[Robby]

Below is a list of various 45 colt loads. There are +P loads from 145 grain to 335 grain. There are low recoil loads from 200 to 255 that I have seen. There are Standard loads from 165 grain to 255 grain, I excluded some of the Buffalo bore standards as they seem to be closer to +P than standard round.

Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 145 Grain
Low Recoil Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 200 Grain Lead Flat
Reduced Recoil Blackpowder Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 235 Grain
Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 335 Grain Cast
Ammunition 45 Colt +P 300 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow Point
Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 255 Grain
Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) +P 225 Grain Barnes
Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 165 Grain Lead Hollow Base Flat Point

Taurus revolver manual says: 45 LONG COLT.....................255 GR 900 FPS

The question I wonder about, could I use in "THE JUDGE" any of the +P loads. I see the 145 +P, 165 +P, and even the 225 +P. I would be concerned about the 300, or 335 grain, but then again JUDGE is a modern steel revolver, but the frame is listed as compact. Has anyone used the +P rounds, or know more about the FPS ratings for the 45 colts I have mentioned.

Thus far, I have only used, 200 gr, 225 gr, and 250 gr standard and cowboy loads.

 

[Steelheart]

This was discussed a while back but I don't recall where here so I'll try and cover the main points.

Most of the 45 Colt +P loads are listed as safe in large framed guns, some only in the strong models like Super Blackhawks, Redhawks, Raging Bull etc. Some +P loads, once again, depending on how hot that load is, are fine in anything that is also chambered in 44 magnum. For example, Smith chambers their N frame in both 44 magnum as well as 45 colt.

Since, as you've already pointed out, the Judge is a medium/compact frame gun I would not run anything rated +P in it as you might lose the gun along with some flesh that you'd rather keep.

That being said, I'd feel comfortable using Buffalo Bore's Standard Pressure 45 Colt ammo in a Judge (or any other medium/compact frame gun). A quick scan of Corbon's site didn't show me anything I'd be comfortable with.

Win. Silvertips or Federal's big lead hollow point would also work well for a defensive load.

Steelheart

 

[Robby]

Well more fun in this area!

Per, a thread here! Taurus says, (not I.) that any gun manufactured 2005 or after is rated for plus P. The compact gun situations does not hold true, as the Tracker 41 magnum, 44 magnum, 617/627 357 magnum are listed & rated as compacts would be rated for +P as would THE JUDGE if you follow that idea as it is a compact.
Not that I plan on firing +P out of it, but I was curious and am finding some more interesting results thru out the forum. I personally like what is available in standard loads, 9mm, 38/357, and 45 colt. There is enough there IMHO, to put the stop on most BG's. If I cannot stop em with a 255 gr 45 colt, they are wearing armor, or definitely on something.

 

[Steelheart]

The thing is that there is no SAAMI rating for 45 Colt +P. There is for 38 Special, 9mm and 45 ACP.

Steelheart

 

[Robby]

I did refer to the SAAMI site, and manufacturers from there to see this info.

Now the point comes in, as to how much is too much. In checking the list below, only one of them is not loaded to SAAMI specs. The list is from only one manufacturer. However, the FPS, exceeds what is in the individual manual for the gun. But if Taurus says they are all +P rated, how the heck do we know what to shoot unless the manual is updated, or information is posted somewhere that is correct. I know the Web site it totally trashed as to accuracy of info.

Model Product Name+ Price Buy Now
05000 45 COLT+P 145 GR. GLASER BLUE
SD45C200/20 45 COLT+P 200 GR. JHP
DPX45C225/20 45 COLT+P 225 GR. DPX
HT45C265BHP/ 45 COLT+P 265 GR. BCHP
HT45C300JSP/ 45 COLT+P 300 GR. JSP
HT45C335HC/2 45 COLT+P 335 GR. HC
CL45C360/20 45 COLT+P 360GR HARD CAST
05200 45 COLT+P SILVER 145 GR.

again, I am not planning to use +P but the occasion could come where I need or want too. I note that the one not loaded to SAAMI spec's is closer to the FPS manual specs, than the ones that are loaded to +P SAAMI spec's

45 COLT+P 200 GR. JHP 1100FPS/537 FTLBS 20 ROUND BOX (Not loaded to SAAMI Specifications)
45 COLT+P 225 GR. DPX 1200 FPS/720FTLBS 20 ROUND BOX
45 COLT+P SILVER 145 GR. 1350 FPS/ 587 FTLBS GLASER SAFETY SLUG SILVER 6 ROUND PACK

Hopefully, I can find more information on the capabilities of THE JUDGE, either for or against +P. I am very curious about this subject especially as it could apply to other guns of the same caliber and frame.

 

[FrankG]

In my new Speer #14 loading Manual on page 979 they state: The industry maximum average pressure for the .45 Colt is 14,000 psi.
The .45 Colt is habitually loaded light in deference to many 1st generation Colts still in use that were made for black powder. I think the same holds true for the .44 Special. Hope this helps some. Frank.

 

[Robby]

In my new Speer #14 loading Manual on page 979 they state: The industry maximum average pressure for the .45 Colt is 14,000 psi.
The .45 Colt is habitually loaded light in deference to many 1st generation Colts still in use that were made for black powder. I think the same holds true for the .44 Special. Hope this helps some. Frank.

TY very much, as soon as my old brain wraps itself around that tidbit of information, I will probably have a better idea, of 14,000 psi, compared to the listings of fps's of 1,100, 1,200 & 1350. Obviously, I have never reloaded, but I knew cowboy loads were light. Even though there was not much difference in 200 cowboy loads, 225 CCI Aluminum cased, and 250 JHP that I had bought out of Texas.

 

[NativeTexan]

I would not put anything rated "+P" in any Taurus shy of a Raging Bull. Some of these loads are only safe in Ruger Blackhawks and TC Contenders and equally strong guns like the heavy X frames, Raging Bull, or Freedom Arms guns. Too much pressure for a smaller framed gun or Colt or Colt SAA clones.

Stick to that 255 grain/900 fps creed. It's enough for anything the gun is appropriate for, anyway. Winchester silvertip loads in .45 Colt are excellent for self defense.

 

[FrankG]

There is one factory load that I know of that gets almost 900fps without being +P it's the Federal 225gr SWC lead hollow point. Federal lists it as 900fps, I have chronographed it at 858 in my 5-1/2" Ruger SA. It should be ok in most guns that are proofed for smokeless. It is accurate in my gun & very pleasant to shoot also. I like this load a lot.
Remember the Colts were not proofed for smokeless till about # 192,000 as per John Taffin. Frank

 

[Steelheart]

Something else to remember is that the SAAMI rating are pressure not weight/velocity spec. Some combinations of bullet/powder/primer can be safe and another combo that give the same (or less) velocity could damage/destroy your gun.

Steelheart

 

[Robby]

All good information,TY very much!!
sorry I did not get back to this thread for a couple days. With the wind storms, tornado's and such, I been out estimating damages for people that do repairs to roofs and siding. I needed a job, to pay for my guns!!!

 

[cartjudge]

8) From what I've read, Cor-bon designed its 335 gr +P cartridge
specifically for the S&W Model 25-5 as it is a more standard
45 as the Judge and some other revolvers. The problem of
+P's is not exactly blowing your gun up but wearning it out
faster, so use of +P is not recommended for regular use.
I'ts comforting, however, that if one was to face a mean
large animal something like the Cor-bon 335 gr at 1050,
or 300gr at 1300/1400 fps can be employed for such
situation.

 

[texastaurusguy]

Check this out.......

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=41

Heavy .45 Colt +P Ammo - 300 gr. J.F.N. (1,325 fps/M.E. 1,170 ft. lbs.) - 50 Round Box - (Big Game up to 1000 lbs.)

These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are safe in all LARGE FRAME Ruger revolvers.
(includes Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, all pre-2005 Vaquero, Bisley, Redhawk)


I don't know that I'd fire these off in the Judge, but pushing a 300 grain bullet 1,325 fps is pretty amazing. That's harder hitting than a 44 magnum load.

 

[.452dia]

Check this out.......

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=41

Heavy .45 Colt +P Ammo - 300 gr. J.F.N. (1,325 fps/M.E. 1,170 ft. lbs.) - 50 Round Box - (Big Game up to 1000 lbs.)

These Heavy .45 Colt +P loads are safe in all LARGE FRAME Ruger revolvers.
(includes Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, all pre-2005 Vaquero, Bisley, Redhawk)


I don't know that I'd fire these off in the Judge, but pushing a 300 grain bullet 1,325 fps is pretty amazing. That's harder hitting than a 44 magnum load.

I quoted this in another post. I load a 325 gr LSW-WN, LBT Hard Cast bullet pushed to over 44mag vel. in my Old Style Ruger 5.5 inch Vaquero. The load is seriously not pleasant to shoot but it is accurate and as a last resort, should stop a large fury animal intent on having you for a meal. The Old Style Vaquero is built like a howitzer and can handle the load. The new style Vaqueros are much smaller and lighter and Buffalobore does not recommended anything but standard 45LC loads for them. The Judge looks to be smaller than the new Vaquero in frame size so I would think twice before using +P. I won't post a load for anything but if you can find some of the data for LBT bullets, they have some good recommendations.

 

[NativeTexan]

With my Ruger Blackhawk, I err on the safe side, 4 5/8" barrel, I'm pushing a 300 grain JHP/XTP to 1120 fps. From my 7" TC it gets 1200 fps/about 1000 ft lbs. This is too much for a Judge IMHO. I only load up that load when I'm hunting. It's too much for any self defense scenario. It is 1" at 25 yards accurate in my gun. I've yet to shoot anything with it as I don't hunt with the gun much. When I developed it, I knew this guy in a nearby town with hog dogs and took it along on hog stabbing missions just in case a big boar got after me. Never actually had to use it. It is rather heavy in recoil and actually HURTS in my TC Contender. Not a load for the recoil shy or the weaker guns.

 

[caryg]

You know I am not a smart person, but have too think a hundred years ago our forefathers who took up arms did not worry about blowing there guns up over to powerful of ammunition. I bet they would shoot whatever tey had and be very grateful for it. It seem too me in these very different times people are worring about things that I seem are far less important. I bought My 3 inch judge too shoot anything and everything and if it dont shoot it I will buy something else that will, I dont want to start an argument but that is why I bought it in the first place. I have a colt 45 made in the forties and shoot the h___ out of it . If reputable ammo makers make there bullets, be glad you can still get them. Thanks.

 

[cartjudge]

Talked with a Cor-bon Engineer about +P 45lc use in the Judge.
The engineer stated they shoot +Ps everyday in the Judge. He
further stated that although it can be done, "You can't fire
thousands of +P rounds through it." As for the SL&W Model
25-5 45lc revolver. Cor-bon used this particular revolver with
their +P studies. The 335 gr at 1050 fps, is the most recommended
because it's the least hot.

 

[NativeTexan]

Go ahead and shoot BB in a Judge, but when you start yappin' that Taurus is a POS cause you've put a thousand rounds through your Judge and it has so much end shake it won't fire, I'm gonna call you on it.

 

[caryg]

Mr Native Texan Sir. You will never hear me YAP about thousands of rounds of +P ammo in My Judge. I bought My Judge for self defense and the bad guys out there. I intend too shoot the big stuff too know how it shoots. I go too the range and shoot my 22 ruger so as too perfect my shooting skills. If a gun like the Judge can't hold up too a few hundred potent shells than I will try another gun. But in the meantime I am sure the Judge will prevail.

 

[NativeTexan]

Mr Native Texan Sir. You will never hear me YAP about thousands of rounds of +P ammo in My Judge. I bought My Judge for self defense and the bad guys out there. I intend too shoot the big stuff too know how it shoots. I go too the range and shoot my 22 ruger so as too perfect my shooting skills. If a gun like the Judge can't hold up too a few hundred potent shells than I will try another gun. But in the meantime I am sure the Judge will prevail.

The Judge is a self defense gun, that's what it excels at. Buffalo Bore loads just don't make sense in a judge anyway and personally, I couldn't afford 1K rounds of it at 25 bucks a box of 20. LOL I could put the reloads through it, but like you, I save the hot stuff for my Ruger for applications where it makes sense. There is not a thing wrong with a 255 grain flat point at 900 fps, will stop just about anything around here at close range, but I don't live in bear country. I've popped a few hogs in the trap with em and they did the trick.

If I was stoking a judge for defense, I'd look no further than 000 buck loads backed up by a couple of silver tips. Hard to beat. Buffalo Bore is for shooting BIG critters in the wilds. Too much penetration for self defense IMHO and the Judge really isn't an outdoor revolver for use against grizzlies, after all. If I was walkin' around in the Yukon, I think I'd want a Raging Bull or maybe a Freedom Arms in .454 Casull. I kinda have a thing for single actions on the trail and in the woods.

My Ruger puts my 300 grainers into 1" at 25 yards off a rest. They're HOT, you know you've fired a magnum (in effect) big bore revolver when they go off. They down right hurt with the Contender. I have a pacmayer grip on it and it kicks back into the web of my shooting hand and sort of grabs. The old plow handle on the Ruger just rolls up as it fires. Besides, the Contender, chambered for .410, is not as accurate, about 3" at 25 yards. The Ruger is a better hunting pistol, but then, I do have this .30-30 barrel for the Contender that shoots 1.5 MOA. The .45/.410 is hampered by a HUGE freebore. I get a lot of leading with cast bullets, too, as gasses get by the bullet on its way to the rifling and heat it up. I'm not sure if the Judge would be so hampered with that using cast lead, but I'd sort of expect it. Cowboy loads might be okay, but I'd bet they'd lead, too, just take longer to show it.