Taurus Firearm Forum banner
1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As some of you already know I recently picked up a new used Witness 45acp. So of course after a quick cleaning and while the barrel is out I run it to the bench and start dropping bullets into it. YIKES! 1/2 of what I dropped would not seat. Some not even close. They all pluck as they should in the Springfield XD and the Factory Winchester I have will plunk in this Witness.

The ones that are close will seat with a very slight pressure and can pull them out with a finger nail. The ones that take more pressure need a screwdriver to get them out. Now I did take a marker and colored all around and then tried it but there is nowhere on the case that is hitting heavy enough to remove the marker. There is a mark about 1/3 the way around and is about in the middle of the bullet, meaning between the mouth rim and the base of the bullet. Also when I measure them out with my caliper they are within spec.

Can the camber in this barrel really be this tight?

Also the bullets that I am using are XTREME RN and Berry's Flat Point. The EXTREME seem to be worse than the Berry's.

Thoughts, suggestions?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yissnakk

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Did you mark the bullet? They might be a little long and hitting the rifling.
Not the problem as they are sticking long before that. Like 1/4" or better on some of them. And actually they are loaded shorter than listed because they were hitting on the XD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mingaa and Yissnakk

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,376 Posts
My usual disclaimer: I'm not expert on the subject but I have 2 thoughts.

The first is with the Xtreme bullets, have you measured the cartridge diameter where the bullet is seating into the case? Maybe the Xtreme bullets are a little big and causing the case to bulge a small amount?

Second thought is REALLY clean the chamber, maybe the former owner used some cheap lacquered cartridges that left a mess in the chamber?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,742 Posts
I would put money on the crimp (or lack thereof) - do you put a roll crimp on your rounds?

I didn't have enough crimp on mine for my Para Ordinance P10-45. They fit in my Taurus PT1911 and my PT24/7G2C but would not chamber in the Para. I had to adjust my roll crimp on my Lee die ....then run about 500 rounds through it again...
 
  • Like
Reactions: .452dia and darbo

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
37,552 Posts
I began setting both my 9mm and 45 ACP a little (.002 maybe) deeper when I had feeding problems in the PT 111 G2 and the EAA Witness Compact primarily in the magazine loading. While they had fed fine in my prior guns...the PT92, CZ 75 Compact and the PT1911 I started having trouble when I acquired the guns mentioned. As they are loaded lightly with HP 38 and Universal, I had no fear of compressing the charge/causing over pressure and now they feed fine on all of my guns.

Probably need to do a "plunk test" on yours in the chamber.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yissnakk

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,085 Posts
Don’t rush to it but undersized does are pretty common - and a few thousands can make a difference.

Undersize Reloading Die, .45 ACP: EGW Gun Parts

A bulge Buster might also help. They tend to focus on the base dimensions - maybe not your problem area.

Somethings got to give barrel or brass. Opening up the chamber can be done - probably the last choice.

Been in in touch with the manufacturer for input? Maybe the solution is on the shelf.

No fun using 2 different 45 load setups each for 1 gun!!!

Post up up where you go, eh?!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
First of all to clarify the 45acp is still new to me and I'm still working up loads and which ones I like and which work best. So that is the reason for the 3 different bullets and 3 different powders I'm using.

The problem seems to be a diameter issue and not a length issue. I have just loaded up 70 rounds the other day all with the 200gr RN XTREME bullets. There were 25 loaded with Ramshot powder because I had loaded some of these before just to test function and they shot well. These were loaded in once fired XTREME cases and every one passed the plunk test. Next were 30 loaded in R-P cases and there were 5 that failed to enter the chamber 1/2 way and there were 10 that failed to plunk freely but would seat with a light tap. The rest worked just fine. Then there were 20 made with mixed headstamps that I loaded 0.2gr light to see if they would still cycle.

Then I went thru and plunk tested the Berry's that I had loaded before for the XD. Those were 185gr and 200gr Flat Point. All the 10 185gr plunked and less than 1/2 of the 20 200gr did. These were leftovers from the last range trip.

After playing around with that painted bullet a bit more it looks like there might be a slight bulge at the base of the bullet. Kind of like it didn't seat straight. Which I find strange as it cannot be seen even with a magnifying glass. And then again I would find it hard to believe the camber on this barrel is that tight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yissnakk

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Forgot to mention, a blank sized case drops right in and drops right out so this is happening after the bullet is added.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
35,626 Posts
What was the OAL of your reloads? And, did you use a case length headspace gauge ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,614 Posts
Find a Lee Factory Crimp Die and use it. It should solve your problem. Sounds like you have a tight chamber with a dies that don't fully size your cases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
The data that I found was for a Rainier plated RN not an XTREME and that was 1.269" which wouldn't fit in the XD and had to shorten it to 1.265 to get them to drop. . Had to shorten the Berry's also in that gun almost .010" with the Flat Point because they were hitting. With multiple guns I'll plunk test and load both to the shortest chamber so I don't have to make 2 of the same loads at different lengths.

Headspace gauge = barrel. I do plunk test every new bullet I use. In the case of the 9mm I test them in the Springfield XD because I know that guns throat is shorter than the one in my Taurus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Find a Lee Factory Crimp Die and use it. It should solve your problem. Sounds like you have a tight chamber with a dies that don't fully size your cases.
That may be what I will end up having to do. I certainly wouldn't want to have to sort brass for it as for some reason all the XTREME brass I loaded for it worked.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
37,552 Posts
I seem to recall issues with the Aguila once fired brass where the bullet would "cock" slightly when either set on top and/or during the press. The outline of the projectile could be seen faintly. I use the Lee FCD die and have from the start in my four hole turret press and so haven't had any feeding issues. When I ordered the first die set for 45 ACP the person I spoke to at Lee suggested these when I questioned the need for the extra expense. If you have a three die turret then it's an added operation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
So it's been a long interesting day. It started with checking the forum responses and answering a few. Then I ran 2 new cases thru the fist two stages on the press. Took the resized case and dropped it into the barrel and all was fine. Took the second case that was also flared and dropped that in. It only went about half-way which is what I expected. Then dropped them both thru the XD with the difference being that in the XD the flared case dropped almost all the way in. I then took those loaded shells that did not pass and had set aside and dropped them into the XD. They all passed. So then I colored another case and tried again but again this didn't reveal any high spots on the case. Getting frustrated I started measuring everything. Bullets, cases empty, cases filled and all was good by the numbers. So I quit for lunch and to clear my thoughts.

Mid afternoon I went back this time I pulled the seating die and took it apart. Actually looked very clean still but I cleaned it all again with some spray metal parts cleaner. Then took the body and ran a case into it a few times and turned it while it was inside. Then did it with a loosely fitted bullet w/o the seating stem and then again with the stem. Then put it all back together and into the press.

After all this I decided to try again. I took one of the 6 from the one group that didn't pass before and ran it back thru the press. Amazingly whatever I had done help. Still wouldn't seat all the way but almost. So now I turned the seating die down 1/4 turn and ran it thru again. This time it would drop all the way in but wouldn't fall out. Tried dropping a few more times and when oriented one way it would drop all the way in but when turned a bit it wouldn't drop. So I turned the seating die down another 1/8 turn. Again an improvement. Not perfect but better. Out of 11 cases all but 2 now fully seat when dropped in and 5 of the remaining 9 will drop right out when turned over. Almost forgot to add that I also changed the shell holder!

So I think I'm going to take these to the range and shoot them and see what happens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Czechbikr

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
37,552 Posts
They do tend to accumulate brass particles and mine are overdue for a good cleaning. Although your 45 ACP dies are newer, they could have had a preservative on them gumming up the works. The Lee seating die will crimp, both taper and roll crimp depending on the adjustment. The FCD only gives a final check on the interface between the case and the bullet. It does sound like you're on the right track.
 
  • Like
Reactions: olfarhors

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,935 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The Lee seating die will crimp, both taper and roll crimp depending on the adjustment. .
Found that out long ago on the 9mm and then again a couple days ago with the 45 when I was trying to get them to plunk.. Have 2 that I'm going to have to pull apart. This has been quite a trying ordeal. Never had one that I've struggled like this.

You able to get away and shoot in McHenry this week?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Czechbikr

·
Registered
Joined
·
36,893 Posts
The data that I found was for a Rainier plated RN not an XTREME and that was 1.269" which wouldn't fit in the XD and had to shorten it to 1.265 to get them to drop. . Had to shorten the Berry's also in that gun almost .010" with the Flat Point because they were hitting. With multiple guns I'll plunk test and load both to the shortest chamber so I don't have to make 2 of the same loads at different lengths.

Headspace gauge = barrel. I do plunk test every new bullet I use. In the case of the 9mm I test them in the Springfield XD because I know that guns throat is shorter than the one in my Taurus.
That's exactly what I do IF I find any weapon in a certain caliber has a tight (Spec) Chamber.
had to do it with the CZ 97 BD, every other 45 acp I had would run wit the listed OAL and the 200 Grain Flat point except it. so I just shortened up the OAL for it, plunk tested it and never looked back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: muddcatt54

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,699 Posts
While reloading the last thing I do is wipe down the bullet then drop it in the case checker. The case checker diameter is smaller than the chamber. I don't find a lot of issues but they are easier to deal with here at the house than the range. Awhile back I thought I'd outgrown the checker so I quit using it not long after getting my dillon then I started getting FTF and jams I found the bullet wasn't seating straight I needed to bell the case just a little more to get it to work properly. Now everything I load gets tested
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,735 Posts
You might want to send your barrel off to be throated. I did it with a cranky 1911 barrel and it solved my issue. It's easy since you just have to send the barrel. I used a guy on Facebook called "Cylnderhone". Obviously he also throats revolver cylinders.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top