[ncruikshank]

Just purchased a 709 slim for my wife. Took it home and cleaned it thoroughly, except for the magazine. Using PMC 9mm lugers and my first pull ended in bullets ejecting from the gun. Once it got down to 5 bullets in the mag, the gun seemed to handle fine. I shot two full rounds without any problem, but my wife and son had several times when the bullet ejected (I am guessing this from a video that I took and you can see the bullet coming over her right shoulder. She took two shots and the third was dry. They also had to reload several loads manually by pulling the slide back. One time the slide would not go forward all the way and I reluctantly gave it a push. I also had one bullet that partially loaded and the next bullet jammed behind it not allowing the slide to go forward.
Needles to say my wife doesn't trust this gun. I have read several other threads about cleaning out the magazine good, which I am going to do as soon as I get home today. Any other advise would be welcomed!

 

[Snug9mm]

Welcome to the Forum, I have one too, no problems with 150 Rounds so far 124 grain Federal am new to this type of weapon.
Have seen prev comments not to hand load one in the chamber, it seems to screw up these 709's ?
I wish could be of more assistance but there are many Mavens on this site that are really knowledgeable, someone will come along quick!
Again welcome from little ole New Hampshire

 

[razir66]

Yeah, the rounds need to be fed from the mag, you can't put it in the chamber and shut the action on it which explains why you had to do what you did. My best guess is that your wife and son may not be gripping the gun firmly enough, it needs a firm grip in order for the recoil to expel spent shells properly. I'm confused, it sound like you say it was ejecting live rounds? Clarify if possible to better understand what was going on.

 

[MOONDAWG]

Welcome aboard from Florida the "GunShine" state. :icon_ lala:

Reading between the lines it appears that you're a novice that's been sold a gun from a clerk who thinks "a gun is a gun"; they are not.

Compact light weight polymer guns such as the PT-709 or PT-111 are excellent concealed carry pieces for experienced gunners, but can be a problem for novices.

First, all new guns need to be thoroughly cleaned, then broken in with 200-300+ rounds of harball ammo.

To properly operate, they must be held consistently firmly enough to provide enough resistance for the slide to reciprocate reliably. A loose grip is termed "Limp Wristing" and will cause the gun to malfunction (jam) either by failing to go fully into battery, stove pipe jams or the worst the dreaded "double feed" (as you described).

I hope this helps a bit. Don't give up, there's nothing wrong with the gun, just some teething problems you need to work out. Hang in there. :thumb:

 

[mingaa]

Just purchased a 709 slim for my wife. Took it home and cleaned it thoroughly, except for the magazine. Using PMC 9mm lugers and my first pull ended in bullets ejecting from the gun. Once it got down to 5 bullets in the mag, the gun seemed to handle fine. I shot two full rounds without any problem, but my wife and son had several times when the bullet ejected (I am guessing this from a video that I took and you can see the bullet coming over her right shoulder. She took two shots and the third was dry. They also had to reload several loads manually by pulling the slide back. One time the slide would not go forward all the way and I reluctantly gave it a push. I also had one bullet that partially loaded and the next bullet jammed behind it not allowing the slide to go forward.
Needles to say my wife doesn't trust this gun. I have read several other threads about cleaning out the magazine good, which I am going to do as soon as I get home today. Any other advise would be welcomed!

Is this your first handgun? Semi-auto pistol?

I've read your account and a few things are not completely clear THOUGH it does sound like the gun is malfunctioning.

"Just purchased a 709 slim for my wife. Took it home and cleaned it thoroughly, except for the magazine. Using PMC 9mm lugers - decent ammo in my experience - what grain and type of bullet - 115gr FMJ most likely but post up.

and my first pull what do you mean by pull? Magazine in, racked slide to chamber a round then pulled the trigger? ended in bullets ejecting from the gun. Did the round fire, the slide cycled and a round from the magazine fail to chamber - this is not clear Once it got down to 5 bullets in the mag, the gun seemed to handle fine. How did it get to 5 left in the 7 round magazine? I shot two full rounds without any problem, You fired two rounds then what? reloaded the magazine (that had 3 left in it if I'm keeping up) but my wife and son had several times when the bullet ejected (I am guessing this from a video that I took and you can see the bullet coming over her right shoulder. Bullet ejected when a round was successfully fired - is it a loaded round or an empty case in the video? She took two shots and the third was dry the 3rd failed to fire and remained in the chamber? . They also had to reload several loads manually by pulling the slide back. One time the slide would not go forward all the way and I reluctantly gave it a push. This is NOT the way to chamber a round - lock the slide back insert a loaded magazine then release the slide - this (or manually and fully racking the slide) will seat the bullet in the chamber - firing a round that is NOT properly seated is dangerous. I also had one bullet that partially loaded and the next bullet jammed behind it not allowing the slide to go forward. Sounds like you have both feeding and ejection issues - more clear info is required.
Needles to say my wife doesn't trust this gun. I have read several other threads about cleaning out the magazine good, which I am going to do as soon as I get home today..." Yes - look at the magazine - every gun that you buy should get a 100% check even if it appears to be properly cleaned, lubed and cared for.

I'm not a gunsmith, not even a gun expert but I've had a 709 for a couple of years now (among my guns) and what you seem to be describing sounds like there is a potential for defects BUT you need to eliminate user error first.

Have a look at my comments - rather than respond directly to them it might be more helpful to take a breath - talk to the others that were shooting and make a clear, bullet pointed timeline of what happened. Make your language as clear as possible - welcome to the forum. There are a lot of helpful/knowledgeable folks here AND a lot of 709 owners.

**Good words from Moondawg - you can accelerate the break in period a bit by racking the slide a few hundred times to simulate rounds fired - loading and unloading magazines can also help them come to normal operation as can leaving them loaded overnight OR longer.

 

[ncruikshank]

Thanks. I have shot a lot of different guns, but this is my first hand gun. I figured I was probably doing something wrong, but I have a lot of gun owners that swear by this gun and I took their word on it over a revolver. Thanks again and I appreciate your quick feedback

 

[ncruikshank]

Sorry for the confusion. Yes I am a newbie and probably dont have the the tech speak down yet.
Let me try to respond to your questions one at a time:
1. Dont know the grain, but I will find out.
2. Pull meant: Magazine in, pulled back the slide, DID NOT PULL TRIGGER, the bullet ejected out the top.
3. It got down to 5 in the magazine after the above happened TWICE. no shots were fired
4. It appears to be a loaded round that ejected AFTER the empty shell discharged
5. I dont know if the third failed to fire, but when she pulled the slide back it put a bullet in the chamber and it fired.
6.They DID NOT chamber the round, they simply pulled the slide back to load the next bullet. That is what I mean by the word "Manually" Sorry.
Thanks for the help.
I feel certain that she "limp wristed" the gun and that is what caused the jam since it never happened to me once.

 

[ncruikshank]

Welcome aboard from Florida the "GunShine" state. :icon_ lala:

Reading between the lines it appears that you're a novice that's been sold a gun from a clerk who thinks "a gun is a gun"; they are not.

Compact light weight polymer guns such as the PT-709 or PT-111 are excellent concealed carry pieces for experienced gunners, but can be a problem for novices.

First, all new guns need to be thourghly cleaned then broken in with 200-300+ rounds of harball ammo.

To operate they must be held consistently firmly enough to give the gun enough resistance for the slide to recprocate reliably. A loose grip is termed "Limp Wristing" and will cause the gun to malfunction (jam) either by failing to go fully into battery, stove pipe jams or the worst the dreaded "double feed" (as you described).

I hope this helps a bit. Don't give up, there's nothing wrong with the gun, just some teething problems you need to work out. Hang in there. :thumb:

Thanks for the advise. YES I am a newbie, but just to hand guns. I believe the "limp wrist" is the issue.

 

[ncruikshank]

Yeah, the rounds need to be fed from the mag, you can't put it in the chamber and shut the action on it which explains why you had to do what you did. My best guess is that your wife and son may not be gripping the gun firmly enough, it needs a firm grip in order for the recoil to expel spent shells properly. I'm confused, it sound like you say it was ejecting live rounds? Clarify if possible to better understand what was going on.

Just to be clear, I did not load the gun through anything but the magazine. When I say manually, I mean they had to pull the slide back to load a round. It did not load itself, or was thrown out because of their grip. Thanks so much

 

[ncruikshank]

Is this your first handgun? Semi-auto pistol?

I've read your account and a few things are not completely clear THOUGH it does sound like the gun is malfunctioning.

"Just purchased a 709 slim for my wife. Took it home and cleaned it thoroughly, except for the magazine. Using PMC 9mm lugers - decent ammo in my experience - what grain and type of bullet - 115gr FMJ most likely but post up.

and my first pull what do you mean by pull? Magazine in, racked slide to chamber a round then pulled the trigger? ended in bullets ejecting from the gun. Did the round fire, the slide cycled and a round from the magazine fail to chamber - this is not clear Once it got down to 5 bullets in the mag, the gun seemed to handle fine. How did it get to 5 left in the 7 round magazine? I shot two full rounds without any problem, You fired two rounds then what? reloaded the magazine (that had 3 left in it if I'm keeping up) but my wife and son had several times when the bullet ejected (I am guessing this from a video that I took and you can see the bullet coming over her right shoulder. Bullet ejected when a round was successfully fired - is it a loaded round or an empty case in the video? She took two shots and the third was dry the 3rd failed to fire and remained in the chamber? . They also had to reload several loads manually by pulling the slide back. One time the slide would not go forward all the way and I reluctantly gave it a push. This is NOT the way to chamber a round - lock the slide back insert a loaded magazine then release the slide - this (or manually and fully racking the slide) will seat the bullet in the chamber - firing a round that is NOT properly seated is dangerous. I also had one bullet that partially loaded and the next bullet jammed behind it not allowing the slide to go forward. Sounds like you have both feeding and ejection issues - more clear info is required.
Needles to say my wife doesn't trust this gun. I have read several other threads about cleaning out the magazine good, which I am going to do as soon as I get home today..." Yes - look at the magazine - every gun that you buy should get a 100% check even if it appears to be properly cleaned, lubed and cared for.

I'm not a gunsmith, not even a gun expert but I've had a 709 for a couple of years now (among my guns) and what you seem to be describing sounds like there is a potential for defects BUT you need to eliminate user error first.

Have a look at my comments - rather than respond directly to them it might be more helpful to take a breath - talk to the others that were shooting and make a clear, bullet pointed timeline of what happened. Make your language as clear as possible - welcome to the forum. There are a lot of helpful/knowledgeable folks here AND a lot of 709 owners.

**Good words from Moondawg - you can accelerate the break in period a bit by racking the slide a few hundred times to simulate rounds fired - loading and unloading magazines can also help them come to normal operation as can leaving them loaded overnight OR longer.

orry for the confusion. Yes I am a newbie and probably dont have the the tech speak down yet.
Let me try to respond to your questions one at a time:
1. Dont know the grain, but I will find out.
2. Pull meant: Magazine in, pulled back the slide, DID NOT PULL TRIGGER, the bullet ejected out the top.
3. It got down to 5 in the magazine after the above happened TWICE. no shots were fired
4. It appears to be a loaded round that ejected AFTER the empty shell discharged
5. I dont know if the third failed to fire, but when she pulled the slide back it put a bullet in the chamber and it fired.
6.They DID NOT chamber the round, they simply pulled the slide back to load the next bullet. That is what I mean by the word "Manually" Sorry.
Thanks for the help.
I feel certain that she "limp wristed" the gun and that is what caused the jam since it never happened to me once.

 

[mingaa]

Have a look in the magazine (yep, sometimes factory gunk IS in there) - try 124gr ammo if you were shooting 115 IF you can find it. Do the living room break in process and shoot the gun yourself (without handing it around) with real focus on the grip (give a Google or You Tube search for more visuals if you want). Take another range trip and post up!! If things straighten up then you can show the family the correct way to handle the gun. If you have a range with instructors a short session with an experienced shooter/trainer will be helpful - even for reassurance - Moondawg is right on the money, a sub-compact pistol can come with some challenges!

 

[razir66]

It sure sounds to me like the gun already had a round in the chamber, it sounds like pulling back the slide was not necessary. When the last shot is fired, the chamber stays open, when you put in the next mag, it automatically loads the chamber, no racking the slide necessary. If this is not the case, then somehow the first bullet is popping out of the magazine somehow...

Sorry for the confusion. Yes I am a newbie and probably dont have the the tech speak down yet.
2. Pull meant: Magazine in, pulled back the slide, DID NOT PULL TRIGGER, the bullet ejected out the top.
3. It got down to 5 in the magazine after the above happened TWICE. no shots were fired

 

[ncruikshank]

Have a look in the magazine (yep, sometimes factory gunk IS in there) - try 124gr ammo if you were shooting 115 IF you can find it. Do the living room break in process and shoot the gun yourself (without handing it around) with real focus on the grip (give a Google or You Tube search for more visuals if you want). Take another range trip and post up!! If things straighten up then you can show the family the correct way to handle the gun. If you have a range with instructors a short session with an experienced shooter/trainer will be helpful - even for reassurance - Moondawg is right on the money, a sub-compact pistol can come with some challenges!

Thanks so much. I think I have a good idea what to do. I have several very trained and experienced folks to rely on and I am sure that with just a little more training my wife will be shooting like a pro. It is her first gun and she is a quick study. Got to work on her keeping that wrist stiff! Now to find some ammo. I have looked every where to find some rounds that wont break the bank. What should I expect to pay for practice grade stuff? I paid $42.00 for the PMC lugers, but it is all supply and demand and where I live the demand is HIGH!!
Thanks again!

 

[dcar_roll]

Good luck! Hope you get it figured out.

 

[mingaa]

Thanks so much. I think I have a good idea what to do. I have several very trained and experienced folks to rely on and I am sure that with just a little more training my wife will be shooting like a pro. It is her first gun and she is a quick study. Got to work on her keeping that wrist stiff! Now to find some ammo. I have looked every where to find some rounds that wont break the bank. What should I expect to pay for practice grade stuff? I paid $42.00 for the PMC lugers, but it is all supply and demand and where I live the demand is HIGH!!
Thanks again!

I hope that was $42 per 100!?! Good luck with the hunt.

 

[Scott8mm]

...
2. Pull meant: Magazine in, pulled back the slide, DID NOT PULL TRIGGER, the bullet ejected out the top.
3. It got down to 5 in the magazine after the above happened TWICE. no shots were fired
4. It appears to be a loaded round that ejected AFTER the empty shell discharged
...

Based on this, I'd say you have a magazine problem where the feed lips are not controlling the rounds, especially when the mag is full and spring force is high. Maybe the feed lips are spread too much. Do you have another magazine (preferably a known good magazine) to use for comparison. You may have other problems too but from your description a defective magazine is the reason unfired rounds are ejecting.

 

[oldbull360]

One thing I would try is to fully load the magazine and slap it against my palm to see if any of the rounds simply pop out. I would also leave the magazine fully loaded for awhile to break in the spring.

 

[Chuck500]

If this is your first hand gun I would recommend taking a good beginner hand gun class. NOT CHL, but how to shoot. I had shot pistols off and on for some years, including in the service. When I got my 709 I decided I needed some formal training. I found a series of three, basic beginner through moving and shooting. Wow, what a difference. The basics of grip, sight picture etc. cannot be over emphasized.

 

[NCSmokey]

I wouldn't focus on the ammo, my 709 eats everything! From 115gr PMC, PPU, Federal, Tula, Wolf, Remington, Winchester, Sellier&Bellot to 147 gr Hornady!

Agree with the others here and have someone assist on the fundamentals of the operation.

 

[Scott8mm]

What should I expect to pay for practice grade stuff? I paid $42.00 for the PMC lugers, but it is all supply and demand and where I live the demand is HIGH!!
Thanks again!

In normal times 9mm FMJ ran $.20 to $.25 a round (like Federal Champion at Walmart). More at a gun shop. I don't know if/when normal times will return. I just (today) got a flyer from Sportsman's Guide with 500 rounds of 115 gr. 9mm S&B FMJ (in 50 cal ammo can) for $130 (plus tax and shipping, non-member price). Of course, JHP self defense ammo is about double, or more but then you won't be shooting much JHP.

Supplemental: The above S&B was out of stock when I checked.