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Discussion Starter #1
Noticed a rattle in my 3rd Gen. PT111 and after some investigation found this small metal part floating around in the back end of lower (composite) part of firearm. Any advice as to what it is and what would cause it to break from where ever it's supposed to be... Shown next to ruler in two views to show slight curve and general width of part. Is the firearm safe to shoot? Should it go straight to Taurus? Any help would be greatly appreciated. (Note: photos are B&W, object is black and definitely metal)



 

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At first I thought it looked like the end of the slide plug. But it is plastic and not rounded like that. My manuals are out in the barn, or I would look at the exploded view to see if maybe it can be identified that way. Already tried Taurus website, and can't get on for some reason. If you have your manual, check the exploded view. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I been looking at the exploded view with no luck, (my eyes aint as good as they used to be either), I put a link here to a pdf of the exploded view. Let me know if you can't see the file at the link. Thanks.

http://www.rabiddogdesign.com/images/taurus1.pdf
 

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looks to me like you will have to send it and the gun in for repairs.sorry i cant help more but i bet the pros here will beable too.
 

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Have you experienced a malfunction? I think I would try to determine if it malfunctions first. There is always the possibility that the piece is some debris left in at the factory. If its in the diagram, I can't find it. :???:
 

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well shoot, just take the slide and bang it on your hand, if nothing falls out, or rattles do the same thing with the frame.

Yeah, I looked at the diagrams, but was too lazy to get my PT111 out of the gun box to check it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It does not rattle any longer now that that loose piece is out. Seems to cycle o.k. and everything without live ammo in the mag.

I do plan to have it repaired or send to Taurus if needed but I'd rather say it looks like the "-part name here-" has busted off at the tip or order the part then send it in cold.

Also by posting here it may alert others to look for the "who-see-what-sis" that may be a weak part in the PT111.

Does Richard from Taurus Customer Service still visit these boards?
 

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I don't know what it 'is', but I can tell you that it isn't part of the slide. You can eliminate that from your search. It would have to be a piece of debis from who-knows-where-land or from the frame.
 

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Did you find the piece, in front of the grip, or behind it. Look at the spring assembly that holds the barrel in place if up front, and at the tang that the takedown rod goes thru on the barrel.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Good news and bad news.

Good News:
I found the source of the metal scrap...

Bad News:
It is the very tip of the Manual (thumb) safety! The thumb safety in the 'ON' position will block the slide from being cocked, but, if I have one in the chamber you can STILL pull the trigger! This is bad, very bad!

I do not know how it broke off. With the slide off, if you look down into the hand grip area of the firearm (with a bright light down there) and turn your thumb safety up & down. There's a little internal part that moves up & down as well, this must block the trigger from being pulled. Well mine is now gone, or greatly shortened.

Can anyone say safety issue? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
 

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I am seeing this now on my own PT111. The exploded diagram is not detailed enough and does not show the upward curve of this tongue. You are correct that this inner tongue portion broke off of the manual thumb safety. When the safety is flipped "on" this tongue pivots up and blocks rearward movement of the trigger bar.

It was probably just a flawed casting of the safety. However, if one were to flip "on" the safety on a Millennium Pro, one could theoretically pull the trigger very hard (with both hands and two or more fingers on the trigger) and get enough leverage on the trigger bar to snap this piece off. It would take a lot of effort to do this and I doubt that you ever pulled the trigger this hard with the safety on.

My opinion is that this gun is better without the thumb safety. As I have mentioned before, if the trigger is pulled at all as the safety is being flipped on, the trigger bar can get behind the safety tongue and not be blocked. The safety will look and feel like it is "on". Yet a simple pull of the trigger will allow the gun to fire! Since the safety also "locks" the slide, firing a round this way would likely cause thumb safety and/or slide damage. The manual addresses this fact and says that the trigger must be fully forward when activating the safety.

So now we have TWO reasons not to use the manual safety.

It is interesting to note that the three manual safety parts are the only parts listed in the diagram that are "optional". Leaving them off will not impair the normal operation of the gun, but would leave a gaping recess in the frame.

It looks like your pistol needs to take a trip down to Florida for thumb safety replacement. To do so requires removal of the metal frame insert. There are two small safety parts (a spring and spring ball) that must be properly reinstalled.
 

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Rabid_Dog said:
Good news and bad news.

Good News:
I found the source of the metal scrap...

Bad News:
It is the very tip of the Manual (thumb) safety! The thumb safety in the 'ON' position will block the slide from being cocked, but, if I have one in the chamber you can STILL pull the trigger! This is bad, very bad!

I do not know how it broke off. With the slide off, if you look down into the hand grip area of the firearm (with a bright light down there) and turn your thumb safety up & down. There's a little internal part that moves up & down as well, this must block the trigger from being pulled. Well mine is now gone, or greatly shortened.

Can anyone say safety issue? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
if you fired the gun with the switch between fire and safe that can cause a breakage i think, the oweners manual forbidis it it thinks is how the safties are defeted on theses pistols
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I now know what happened (I think) and am posting it here as an alert for all to read.

Friday a close friend of mine and I were shooting. Naturally we swapped firearms as he had never shot a Taurus before. He's not new to shooting as he's an ex-Marine, NYPD Detective and owns more firearms then I can count. I handed him my PT111 and pointed out the bells and whistles, the thumb safety specifically. During regular fire he had one incident where the PT111 did not fire, I was watching and saw a little trigger flinch but no BANG, he said something (I had ear muffs on so I don't know what) looked at the firearm, nodding like he understood and went back to shooting. I initially thought it was a misfeed, FTF, etc. At the time I thought nothing of it. It makes more sense now.

The best I can figure is that his natural handhold put his thumb, finger, or whatever on the thumb safety and it put it in the partially 'ON' position. I do carry concealed daily with one in the pipe and thumb safety on. Luckily it was noticed before it ever became a safety issue.

I would never believed this would happen with an experienced shooter, but it did. Lesson learned.
 

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I was thinking last nite, that it sounded like someone had either fully or partially engaged the safety, and pulled thru and caused it to fracture. Of course, I did not know about the friend, and the NO BANG incident. Should it have broken, probably not. Was your friend a Glock shooter, (no manual safety). It this repeatable, probably not. But it should be fixed, and a trip to Miami is probably needed, as like someone said, that is gonna involve either taking the frame of the grip apart, or replacing it to match the slide. Bummed out for you, but I guess stuff happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Correct Robby, he is a Glock shooter. His safety is a DAO trigger that feels like 12 lbs. of pull ...as required by NYPD.

Thanks everyone for the input. The combinations of replies & posts did get me looking in the right direction.
 

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Rabid_Dog said:
I now know what happened (I think) and am posting it here as an alert for all to read.

Friday a close friend of mine and I were shooting. Naturally we swapped firearms as he had never shot a Taurus before. He's not new to shooting as he's an ex-Marine, NYPD Detective and owns more firearms then I can count. I handed him my PT111 and pointed out the bells and whistles, the thumb safety specifically. During regular fire he had one incident where the PT111 did not fire, I was watching and saw a little trigger flinch but no BANG, he said something (I had ear muffs on so I don't know what) looked at the firearm, nodding like he understood and went back to shooting.
My theory is that he intentionally put the safety fully "on", but when he tried to fire, he forgot the safety was on. He pulled the trigger HARD trying to make it fire (he sounds like a big strong fella). In doing so, he forced the back of the trigger bar against the inner tongue of the thumb safety and broke it. I still think it was a fluke casting flaw, as a normal safety should have held up to this. He then looked at the gun, snicked the safety "off" and continued shooting.

The part of the thumb safety that locks the slide is close to the lever along the left frame rail, not this inner tongue piece. I don't think the inner tongue piece is in the way of any recoiling parts. But I could be wrong.
 
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