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Discussion Starter #1
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=680259




OK, so you bought a Taurus, it shot fine, you griped about finish damage not covered by warranty (after cleaning the gun with friggin VINEGAR!) and; surprise! they wouldn't cover an item expressly excluded from warranty and now Taurus is the bad guy. And to boot, now half the people in the thread "Will never buy a Taurus!!!" due to this nimrod's version of the events.
 

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Hey. The bright side is that there's more Tauruses for the rest of us. ;D

Yea. It irks me too. But some people only feel relevant when they are critical of something. The *really* insecure have to be critical of what everybody else is critical of. At one time Taurus was a 2nd rank manufacturer and a few old timers remember that. Now here comes a crop of emotional children who haven't got the courage to check things out for themselves and the result is the "everybody knows it's crap" syndrome.
 

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He also posted on www.ar15.com. He even said he only joined the forum to bash on Taurus. Freakin' idiot!

Not only did he soak the gun in water with vinegar, he was using black powder cartridges! If he had understood the warranty in the first place and seen that the finish was only covered for the 1st year, he wouldn't have tried to get warranty work on it. He should of also used the right ammo. He is definately not telling the whole story. I don't care what anyone says, bluing does not just fall off after 3 years.

I don't know whats worse, the Colt and Glock snobs or the Taurus bashers.

I've owned a SS PT945, SS PT92AR, and I still have my PT1911. I've never had one single problem. I had my PT1911 jam once because my friend rode the slide forward when he was racking a round. I had damaged/smashed the front sight on my PT945 when I was getting out of my deer blind. All I did was call Taurus and they sent me a new one. Simple as that.

Taurus kicks ass!!!!!!!
 

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Yes indeedy. He went and did it. Vinegar is acidic to say the least.Black powder,even substitutes, are corrosive. Except for commerecial Dunk-it kits specially made for soaking firearms for cleaning, soaking a firearm in a container full of cleaner is normally not a good idea. One has to know what and why they are doing it. And if he had been shooting all these years, he would have had exposure and some knowledge on black powder and it's characteristics. I rarely have ever had reason to shoot a blackpowder arm, but have a working knowledge of it. Since that is where smokeless powders ancestors come from it would be hard to ignore that.Some do own guns and never delve deeply into the past, history, or chemistry of powders.It would benefit people greatly to find out about this. At least even the basics. Understanding the principles of what,where, and the whys of how all this works is paramount. There is no substitute for ignorance at any level. Muddling one's way through when the responsibilities and consequences of gun use are high is not the way to go through life. Everybody makes mistakes. Including ones that need repair. If I screw up then I face up to it. Since the guy who started this admits that he was doing it to just bash Taurus it figures. This is not the first time the finish, vinegar soak, and blackpowder substitute were used do defame Taurus.This happened at the old sight before we moved here. Model 66s and 605s were used as the targets. In one case someone raised several dead and ancient 3 to 4 year old posts that had 66s or 605s mentioned and then the recent post was added denigrating Taurus in this manner. So do not be surprised if this or something similar shows up again. G Talk and several other gun specific forums tolerate this sort of thing and the perpetrators are only occasionally called on the carpet. Best thing we can do is to ignore these folk and carry on. We can however jump in on this kind of stuff and tell the truth. Most of the reason for doing any of this is to be mean, nasty, and cause waves. Smart folk should or will investigate other sources than the net to get info. I for one for example, inspect the guns I buy and scrutinize closely each one.Even beginners will do such, or should. Granted ,what about a make or model is read about does hold some sway.Even as a beginner, cycling the action and inspection did show that Taurus was a fine example of workmanship. I have come across bad examples of gun snob models, but have never written the company off because of the one bad apple. Intelligent folk will follow that guideline as many have because of common sense. Guidance and mentoring others can help weed some of this bias out. Those who have their minds made up and cannot be changed will continue to go with "conventional wisdom". Even if it is not so wise. Here's a good example. Over seas it is not uncommon for the troops of any nation to use the enemies weapons, because for some rationalization, the "enemies" weapons are supposedly superior in some context. It is also "cool" in the minds of some of the troops to do this. Thought that way too. For a little while. Then found out our weapons good points and the "performance gap" went away. History is full of this "conventional wisdom".
 

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Amen to all points brothers. I went on to Glock-talk last night and read the thread in question. Funny thing I noticed though. At the start those guys were in full support of "that guy", but after a few pages I notice a change in opinion. They realized that his story didn't add up or something was missing. I feel it a shame that all this guy could do is vent on all sites possible. What a waste of cyberspace. Oh well...I'm over it.

Mike
 

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+1 and while cleaning black powder is done with soap and hot water where did the vinegar come from, in all my years of shooting black powder I have yet to have a finish problem, you scrub the bore/barrel with soap and hot water then rinse with very hot water then dry and oil never had rust or any other issues.
 

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Qwiks draw said:
Schlemer. You just spoke for a majority of us on that note.
Agree!!! That guy's just a Cyber-Troll looking to bash Taurus.

BTW, an old use of Vinegar was to remove Gun Blueing, although I don't recommend it for that!
Don't understand the use of Black Powder in the .38 Special when modern smokeless powder works so well.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's why I posted this originally, I just chimed in on gtalk and calmy stated that I was sorry his experience was not good and that my 3 Tauri had been dependable so far @ 12K rounds.

As soon as it became clear that he was not telling the whole story, the tide seemed to turn and more people started calling him on the incomplete version and Taurus owners (I thought) were very polite in telling him; sorry about yours, mine's great. No reason to even dignify the hysteria with arguing, those type of people have already lost their reasoning ability.

The same thread came up on gunsnet and I was much less kind to the original poster, but that's the kind of place gunsnet is, no holds barred.
 

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Interessting update on ar15.com... here is Nak's response. He won't be any happier with it, but it sure puts a better face on Taurus CS than anything else he has presented...

Namerakis
Member
Joined :: April 2007
Post Number :: 12

CA, USA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*** UPDATE - FINAL CALL TO TAURUS ***

I called Taurus today at 1 pm pacific time.
I got a hold of a man this time. A guy name Richard.
I asked him if he could give me the name and address where I could write a letter to the president of Taurus USA over there in FL.

He ask me why and I said because I want to complain about service on a gun that I had sent to them twice and they had for 4 month and promised to fix but never fixed. He then asked for serial number and put me on hold.

A few minutes later he came back on and said he saw the gun's file and that they had had the gun for 4 months and sent it back twice. He said that he wanted to speak with his manager and see if he could work something out for me. He then told me the president's name is Mr. Morrison and asked for my phone number so he could call me back after talking to his manager.

Ten minutes later the same guy called back and asked me when the gun was purchased and I told him, and he said oh ok, THAT'S the problem. The gun was out of warranty for the finish when you sent it in the first time. But then I told him YEAH I KNOW THAT NOW but I was told by first NADINE and then 2 months later by TALIA that it WOULD BE FIXED, basically I told him the whole story from beginning to end, and how I never asked for it to be fixed under warranty but that it was offered to me.

He put me on hold for a few more minutes and then came back and said that the two women Nadine and Talia that handled my case were no longer employed by Taurus. He said that everything they told me was wrong and telling me to send it to them twice what their mistake and that he apologized for that. He also said that since I live in CA that also restricts just what they could do for me anyway. (not sure what that means)

So I asked if that was all Taurus could do for me now after all these months. And he said yes all we can do is apologize for the inconvenience that our two former employees caused you. And I said, alright then. I asked if I sent a letter to their address to Mr. Morrison if the president would get it, and he said yes. So I said, well thanks for your time and the clarification, and he said again sir we do apologize for the mix up but unfortunately that's all we can do for you. And I said "Ok thanks. Have a nice day", and he replied, "You too sir".



Most folks would take an apology and move on, but it ain't going to happen here... he has become a hero/victum in his own mind.
 

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rvito said:
I think that guy posted his whining on every site possable. Get it be-blued and STFU
I'd strip the bluing completely and get it ha-hard ca-chromed! LOL!
 

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rvito said:
I think that guy posted his whining on every site possable. Get it be-blued and STFU
Hey he even posted it here at Taurusarmed.net. Check out in the revolver forum, you can have a laugh. I especially like the whole "i've been shooting for 20+ years, but I wanted to try balckpowder in a smokless powder gun" crap. Heck, I've been shooting for less than 2 years I know not to do that...

but anyway...
 

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I have wanted to shoot goex black dawge bp substitute out of my Gaucho ( ss though) .Have seen others shoot this brand through their colts,ubertis and remmies, heck I have even shot cabelas brand bp substitut through my 1871 buff classic. Should i be doing this?
What would be the harm be besides the corresive nature of the powder and or fouling inside the barrel. I thought that this bp substitute burned at a slower rate and produced less heat.Is this correct or am I off.Somebody explain for please. Now this has me a wonderin.
 

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BRAD HOWARD said:
I have wanted to shoot goex black dawge bp substitute out of my Gaucho ( ss though) .Have seen others shoot this brand through their colts,ubertis and remmies, heck I have even shot cabelas brand bp substitut through my 1871 buff classic. Should i be doing this?
What would be the harm be besides the corresive nature of the powder and or fouling inside the barrel. I thought that this bp substitute burned at a slower rate and produced less heat.Is this correct or am I off.Somebody explain for please. Now this has me a wonderin.
Let me get this straight... you want to shoot a black powder-like propellant through a gun which was designed to shoot modern smokeless? If you're trying to damage your gun I suggest you just soak it in sea water for about ten years, then break it up with a sledge hammer. That might do it.
 

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some body please explain this to me- Why can't you shoot b.p. or b.p. substitute in a smokeless gun?- I know you can't shoot smokeless in a bp gun due to the higher velocities and temps internally. I have seen during SASS matches, top professionals of the sport shoot B.p. or substitute in Ruger Vaq's, Colts, Uberti's etc. There is even grouping for Modern firearms (blackhawks) with b.p. or substitute. Now I know these guys are shooting a $1200.00 Colt Saa with b.p. (which I believe all are smokeless frames) why can't I in my gaucho. I know corrosiveness and fouling are a problem- I have this with my 1871 buff. classic rifle ( which is a modern rifle) but I know how to clean it.
 

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ok guys just got ahold of one of my pards and he said he shoots 38 with pyrodex or FFFg powder with a full brass case ( he hand loads of coarse) and has had no problems what-so-ever. The only down side is the constant cleaning so that the cylinder will not bind up. He said he'd shot a full cycle through it at the shoot. Lots of smoke, cylinder and barrel dirty as all get out, but cleaned it ,finish still there and not exploded.
 

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Well, as most of presume... there is more to the story than JUST the black powder, soap & water. The guy says he used vinegar... heaven only knows why? Obviously, there's nothing dangerous about proper loads of anything AND proper cleaning.
 

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Yes, you can use Black Powder or Black Powder Substitute to load and shoot the .38 Special in modern pattern .38 Special/.357 Magnum Revolvers. But you wind up using so much more of that powder than you would use in an equivalent smokeless loading and then you have the associated Cleaning issues.

The only people I can see using Black Powder or Black Powder Substitute are the Cowboy SAS Re-Enactors who might want more Smoke for some added realism in their matches, and many do, with no problems, whatsoever, with proper cleaning methods!

Personally, If I shot BP or BPS, I would still go out of my way to stock Smokeless Powder for .38 Specials! It's cheaper and a lot less of a hassle in the cleaning department!

As Cimarron previuosly mentioned, the improper use of Vinegar would seem to be the main problem here.
 
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