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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been shooting my 905 9mm for about the last month, and I love shooting it. However, in order to shoot it at our club on the indoor range we must use lead bullets. That is not a problem because I have loaded 9mm lead for my other two 9mm, a Ruger model 94 and a Taurus 24/7 Pro. I have loaded both 115 gr. and 125 gr. and do not have a problem with either. However the other night I took the 905 out to shoot and the lead bullets would not load into the cylinder. They would only go part way in. I have some 100 gr. and 95 gr. lrn that I loaded to test (without powder or a primer) just to check to see if they would load. And no luck they would not load either. Can someone explain to me what is going on. Is there something wrong with my cylinder that is causing this to happen or does it have to do with the moon clips or what? If you have the reason or how to correct this please let me know thanks. Dudley
 

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You can't use jacketed bullets at your range? I would expect the opposite from an indoor range---as in they would prefer you to use jacketed rounds as opposed to lead nose rounds.
 

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I am going to hazard a guess! The brass for your load, had been loaded and fired before. From one of your other guns, and it could be possible that the 905 cylinders are closer in tolerance than your other guns and the brass had expanded on being fired to fit those chambers. The 24/7 being a semi auto comes to mind. I am not a smith, nor a gun nut, but I load the same factory ammo in both my PT111 & my 905 with no problems including steel casing Wolf.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Robby, when you say that you use the same factory loads in both guns, are you using lead or coated bullets. The factory load FMJ and JHP that I shot shots in both of my guns. Also the reloaded FMJ and JHP both shot fine in both guns. The problem I am having is with the Lead bullets. I did not say before but I loaded both round nose and also swc and neither one would load, only about 1/2 of the case will go into the cylinder. I checked it out after I asked the question and there seems to be a step inside the cylinder with it reducing in size toward the front of the cylinder. I also checked the lead bullets and they are .356 and the FMJ and JHP are both .355. Thanks for responding I don't know if the additional information will help me find an answer. Dudley
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The range I shoot at has an old indoor range under the barn. Not much to look at but it gives us a place to shoot in the winter months. Our wifes will not go there in the winter, too cold and the small of fuel oil helps keep them out. Anyway, the reason I was told was that the metal jactets will damage the backstop so we can only shoot lead. Dudley
 

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Um...I hate to bring this up, but......

 

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Dudley said:
Robby, when you say that you use the same factory loads in both guns, are you using lead or coated bullets. The factory load FMJ and JHP that I shot shots in both of my guns. Also the reloaded FMJ and JHP both shot fine in both guns. The problem I am having is with the Lead bullets. I did not say before but I loaded both round nose and also swc and neither one would load, only about 1/2 of the case will go into the cylinder. I checked it out after I asked the question and there seems to be a step inside the cylinder with it reducing in size toward the front of the cylinder. I also checked the lead bullets and they are .356 and the FMJ and JHP are both .355. Thanks for responding I don't know if the additional information will help me find an answer. Dudley
I have a shoulder in the cylinders, but that is right where the cartridge will seat with or without the moon clips. I do not reload, so I definitely was using FMJ, JHP, round nose, flat nose. Not an exposed lead in the bunch. I note your .356 compared to .355. (got to get me something to measure those size's) I would tend to wonder on the length of you assembled rounds, compared to factory. Maybe your not seating as deep due to the .356 of your lead. (I heard about seating and length reading here)
 

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My guess is your problem is with the brass casing. As Robby pointed out fired brass expands and you may have to resize it before reusing it again. Run it thorugh your resizing die and then see if they will fit comforably in the cylinders.
 

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rainman said:
My guess is your problem is with the brass casing. As Robby pointed out fired brass expands and you may have to resize it before reusing it again. Run it thorugh your resizing die and then see if they will fit comforably in the cylinders.
TY sir, I could not remember the term for resizing the brass, as I do not reload. I know I have heard it can be critical especially with rifle brass, so why not with pistol brass.
 

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Robby said:
TY sir, I could not remember the term for resizing the brass, as I do not reload. I know I have heard it can be critical especially with rifle brass, so why not with pistol brass.
You're quite welcome sir. These terminologies can get a little crazy at times. Brass will "grow" as it is fired. Not only in its circumference, which requires resizing, but also in length which necessitates trimming the case back to size. Properly sized and trimmed a used case should chamber as easily as a new out of the box factory round. I can't speak for rifle cartridges but a proper sizing is critical in handgun cases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the suggestions of resizing, however I did reside every piece of brass before I loaded it and I checked each piece with tool that you place the brass in before and after to make sure that it is the correct size and length. I can not remember what it is called but it looks like a powder bushing from a Mec bushing. After I had the problem I also started to mic the length and size of the case to make sure that was not causing the problem. Thanks again but I think I have taken steps to eliminate the brass being the problem. I still think it has something to do with the lead bullet being .356 and not .355 but I am not sure. Please keep offering suggestions any maybe we can correct the problem. Thanks again Dudley.
 

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Robby said:
I note your .356 compared to .355. (got to get me something to measure those size's) I would tend to wonder on the length of you assembled rounds, compared to factory. Maybe your not seating as deep due to the .356 of your lead. (I heard about seating and length reading here)
Dudley said:
I still think it has something to do with the lead bullet being .356 and not .355 but I am not sure. Please keep offering suggestions any maybe we can correct the problem. Thanks again Dudley.
Yeah, that was one of the possibilities, that hit my mind early on. The only reason I was not sure, was due to your saying they loaded and fired in the other guns, semi auto's. Not knowing the tolerances of those guns, maybe the slide just hammers them into the cylinder, and the extractor can handle the brass. So you never noticed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have an extra barrel for my Ruger P94 9mm. I have taken both the 115 and 125 gr lrn and lswc and have hand fed them into the barrel. They have no problems going in and will just fall out when the barrel is turned upside down. I looked at the 905 again last night and it must have something to do with the step that is inside the cylinder. I can place a 115 or 125 gr. FMJ or JHP into the cylinder from the front of the cylinder. (the barrel side of the cylinder) however, when I try to do the same with the lead bullets they will not go into the cylinder. I am going to try and find some lead bullets that are .355 and not the .356 to see if infact that is the problem. Any ideas where I can get them. Thanks for the reply Dudley
 

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I got curious and found some one time fired brass, that went thru my PT111. Guess what, it will not seat in my 905. Thus the cylinder will not close. they stick out far enough to block any chance of seating.

I thought you might be interested in that fact. If you look at the brass you can see the expansion area from about 1/4 inch from the base of the brass to the end is expanded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Robby, I have taken brass that was fired from my 24/7 Pro and also from my Ruger P94 and it would not fit into the cylinder so that it would close. I took the same brass and resized it and tried it again and it had no problem going into the 905 cylinder. I loaded three of the brass with 115 fmj and it went into the cylinder fine. I found some 115 gr swc that I had and they went into the cylinder but I could not close the cylinder and lock it up. I even tried to remove the moon clips and they would not go in enough to allow me to lock up the cylinder. The specs. on the cylinder where the step is must really be tight. Thanks for following up and letting me know what you found. Dudley
 

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Apparently, the tolerances are very tight like you said. It was a definite supprise. That could make your original thoughts about the .356 compared to .355 valid.

It also made my original thoughts about the expanded brass valid. I suspect that the chamber of a semi auto are not quite that tight, due to the loading action to allow for the rapid insertion of the cartridge.

I wonder about the use of some type of hone, or such to run in the chambers to help with this problem. Of course it would probably have to be done by a smith with the right tools.
 

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Many times, lead bullets will be left unsized and can be too large for some cylinders that are bored tight. The answer, for the reloader, is to size the bullets, in this case to .355" through a bullet sizing die. I'd bet those particular bullets are .356 and a little fat for a tight cylinder, not at all uncommon.

If you don't reload, your answer is to try another brand, find one that sizes to .355".
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks again for the information and I do agree with you. It is not a problem because I purchased the 905 for protection and as such I am only going to carry factroy loads which will be either FMJ or JHP and I have lots of those loaded for practice. I can shoot the lead out of my other two 9mm to shoot indoors. Everyone have a good one and Thanks Dudley
 

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Actually, I kind of like the fact that the tolerances are tight! I have not gotten to shoot since I bought my 905, Bummer I know. Working thru some health issues at this time. I have practiced my loading and unloading drills, my draw from pocket and holster. I have dry fired a little bit, to get used to the trigger pull DA. If it is half as good firing as my 461, Rossi was and still is, I will be one happy owner. I do note a little more clearance at the forcing cone than my Rossi, but it should not be a problem.
 
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