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Model 445 UL and Failure to Function

2.6K views 12 replies 7 participants last post by  jlc676  
#1 ·
Gentlemen,

I've run into a problem with my Taurus 445UL and am hoping someone here has had a similar experience and that there will be a simple, do-it-at home fix for the issue. I may have to send it off to Taurus for repair but after reading horror story after horror story concerning Taurus' customer service on this forum, I'm reluctant to do so.

Here's what is happening. About a year and a half ago, I received this gun as a gift (brand new) from my childhood best friend (FFL Dealer) when I retired and moved back to my home state. I took it to the range as soon as I could, all ready to make this my concealed weapon (I'm a retired LEO) as soon as it proved reliable. It never has done that.

The first session at the range, approximately 15 rounds in, the cylinder refused to turn (firing double-action). The first thing I did was check and make sure a bullet had not jumped it's case and tied up the cylinder. It had not. Next I reached up and tried to thumb cock the revolver, which was successful with a bit of effort. I continued firing (double-action) for a few more rounds with no problems then it happened again. This time I could not manually cock it into the single-action mode. I opened the cylinder and checked for some kind of trash that could be binding the action but again I could see nothing that should cause this problem. I closed the cylinder and started firing again successfully, for a few more rounds, but the problem soon reappeared. Thinking that I needed to give this gun a thorough cleaning (prior to this range session I had just run a patch or two through the barrel and cylinders), I shut down and headed home.

Before I had a chance to clean the gun I got sick. Real sick. The gun hadn't been touched for over a year when I took it out a few days ago and gave it that thorough cleaning I thought it needed and headed off to the range, where I ran into the exact same problem. When the cylinder locks up, sometimes cocking it into single-action will free things up. Sometimes I can muscle the double-action pull into firing, and sometimes opening and closing the cylinder is the only way to make the gun fire again. Obviously this gun is not worthy of concealed carry at this point if it can't be trusted to fire each and every time. The funny thing about this range session was the gun locked up on the very first round, before it had been fired yet! Sometimes I can fire as many as 10 rounds before the gun fails, but sometimes (most times) it's just 2 or 3 rounds before it refuses to function.

The ammo I've used is all factory ammo. Hornady Critical Defense 165 gr FTX , CCI/Blazer 200 gr GDHP and MagTech 200 gr Cowboy Loads.

Again, I'm hoping that someone who has had the same problem can chime in with some good advice. I realize that this is a Taurus and not a Smith and Wesson, but I'll admit to being more than a bit frustrated at Taurus for releasing a weapon that is designed for self-defense/concealed carry that will not fire reliably. Especially since it is chambered for my favorite caliber and is sized perfectly for my intended use. I don't need match-quality accuracy, just 100% reliability. Apparently the stories about Taurus' Quality Control being hit or miss are valid.

Sincerely,
Jon
 
#2 ·
You should have sent it back for repair when you first had the issue. Now you will need to pick up the shipping cost. Ship FEDEX Ground, it will get there a little slower, but much cheaper and since you have not looked at it for over a year, I would guess there is no hurry.

Don't know what horror stories you are talking about, but most people on these forums have had good experiences with Taurus CS. Send it back and let them fix. It probably has a bad pawl, it happens.

I have a 445UL too and I absolutely love mine. It has never been a problem and it really carries very light with Blazer Aluminium and 200 grain Gold Dots. But I have some 265 grain LSWC-GC that I want to try in it.
 
#3 ·
GreenWolf,

Thanks for the information, it is much appreciated. I should have sent it back right away... but I literally got sick 2 days after that initial range trip. From that point, surviving took priority over that revolver. I still would like to make this my carry piece but you are right... I have other weapons to use until Taurus gets this one fixed, although none of them are .44 Specials unless I want to try and hide a S&W 24 4". Maybe during the winter months.

The CS "horrors" I was referring to were posts on this forum. I have no first had experience with Taurus CS, but while reading this forum, there appear to be a lot of folks who have had nothing but poor experiences with them. I hope they are wrong.

So you think the problem could be caused by a bad pawl? Do you think that is something that would be worth trying to replace myself?

Again, thanks for the comments and have a great weekend.

Jon
 
#7 ·
GreenWolf,

Thanks for the information, it is much appreciated. I should have sent it back right away... but I literally got sick 2 days after that initial range trip. From that point, surviving took priority over that revolver. I still would like to make this my carry piece but you are right... I have other weapons to use until Taurus gets this one fixed, although none of them are .44 Specials unless I want to try and hide a S&W 24 4". Maybe during the winter months.

The CS "horrors" I was referring to were posts on this forum. I have no first had experience with Taurus CS, but while reading this forum, there appear to be a lot of folks who have had nothing but poor experiences with them. I hope they are wrong.

So you think the problem could be caused by a bad pawl? Do you think that is something that would be worth trying to replace myself?

Again, thanks for the comments and have a great weekend.

Jon
Unless you consider yourself a pretty good revolver smith, I would just send it back to Taurus CS, even a gunsmith is not going to have Taurus parts on hand. Let the gunsmiths at Taurus take care of it.

As far as the CS horror stories, we get a lot of what I call "drive by" complaints where the poster only makes a few posts and then leaves. Many of these I think are just jerks, who have are just trying to stir up trouble. They are easy to pick out as they usually aren't ever resolved and/or the original poster never comes back after the first few posts. I have 3 Taurus revolvers, 4 Taurus autos, and a Taurus rifle. Several have had to make the trip back to Miami and I have never had a problem with CS. Even though the 445UL is out of production, I believe it shares many internal parts with the Judge and Tracker series, so that should not be a problem.

Olfarhors is correct in that Taurus will return Next Day or Overnight, but I have never had any trouble with FEDEX Ground which is how it is going, if I'm paying for it. More than likely it will get on a plane to Miami anyway.

As far as the health issues, I can certainly understand having gone through the cancer thing a few years ago. I wasn't down a year, but several months. I told my wife (she's a nurse) that I would not have gone through the cure if I had known what all it entailed. She just looked at me and said that was why she made sure the doctor didn't tell me everything.
 
#5 ·
Yep, IF Fed -X or UPS will ship it ground, company policy for both is second day air or next day air.
Next day air is expensive!
Contact Taurus before shipping!
Don't really matter if its a S &W , Taurus, Colt, Charter Arms, they all been making revolvers long enough to know how to do it correctly, its really not a new digital orbiting platform with laser assist, its a damn revolver!
Good luck with the quest.
 
#6 ·
First of all, I'm glad you've recovered! Must have been a heck of an issue if it kept you from shooting for a YEAR!

Now, I'd send it in. We get to hear the occasional horror story, but we also hear "I had it back in 10 days!" as well. And there's also selection bias to consider (people are unfortunately more likely to complain than praise).

I'd send it in rather than tinker myself in this case. No question.
 
#8 ·
Per a recent thread, UPS made me send my gun next day air, which was expensive. I think FEd Ex may be the same, but when FFL's ship between each other, they seems to be able to use second day air, which costs a bunch less. Regardless of what shipper they use.

Shipping a handgun "ground" and not telling the shipper what the contents of your package air may have legal consequences. Texas Aviator quoted from an ATF reg concerning this. You may want to research.

AS far as the repair, this sure seems to be a recurring theme on taurus revolvers- the revolver works fine for a dozen shots or so, then seizes up. Make sure there's an adequate cylinder gap, because this symptom is kind of classic for that kind problem. The residue from the first few shots binds up the cylinder. If you use a feeler gauge and the gap measures .004" or less, that may be the problem. Good luck.
 
#9 ·
I always tell the shipper I am sending a gun, otherwise they aren't going to insure it. It was my shipper who told me I could send FEDEX Ground and before you ask, he is a certified FEDEX and UPS shipper. I have been using them for several years now and without incident. When I sent my Ruger SR40c back to Ruger they sent instructions to only use a specific type shipper to make sure the gun was handled by the fewest people and to significantly improve the risk of pilferage. My shipper said he met all of those requirements, showed me the certificates hanging on the wall, etc. So when he tells me I can ship that gun at considerably less cost by going Ground, I listen.

Rossi, that recurring theme you talk about is for all S&W design revolvers, which Taurus is one. And in general, Taurus has a slightly larger cylinder gap than a S&W. Checking trough the "buying a revolver checklist", you will see the cylinder gap mentioned. But seriously, if you are having the cylinder seize after a few dozen shots due to cylinder gap, you are shooting some really dirty ammo.

I am not picking on you, Rossi, I am just cognizant of the Taurus revolvers being derived from an original S&W design and many problems attributed to the Taurus revolver are really S&W design issues. Same problem with the PT-1911, many of the problems that people complain about are really 1911 issues, like the extractor.

Speaking of the revolver checklist, you can use it to diagnose your issue and put that down in the explanation of the problem to help the Taurus gunsmiths get to what's wrong. You can find it in the stickies in the gunsmithing forum.
 
#10 ·
Same with the one shipper that I use for everything, and I haven't needed to send a lot of guns back now!
But as for declaring whats In the package, well yes and even if you do if you do not choose to purchase added insurance for the value of it then it goes with I believe 100 dollars loss/damage insurance by the shipper.
MY particular shipper will sent it anyway that i ask but I normally ship a firearm second day air, which many times gets there the next day, IF they have package going to a certain location second day air and a truck/plane going they aren't going to hold a small package because its second day air, next day simply guarantees the time it will arrive.
The next day air as mentioned is to cut down on employee pilferage, they don't lose near as many now as they use to before the company policy of next day air.
Also, a FFL can ship to another FFL or manufacture via USPS if they desire, although most do ship second day air.
Its only us mere mortals that can't use the Post Office.
thank Oswald for that!
 
#11 ·
Several years ago I had problems with my 617SST2locking up when I checked the headspace and B/C gap I found the B/C gap varied from chamber to chamber the largest B/C gap was .005" and the smallest was less than .002". I didn't have a .001" feeler gauge, but the .002" wouldn't go. Customer Service said turn around time would be six weeks. the actual time was five weeks with a two day delivery delay due to a blizzard tying the trucks up. Since I got it back I have had no problems with it. I did enclose a detailed letter with my measurements for each chamber B/C gap with it. Taurus at that time was paying shipping both ways during the first year.
 
#12 ·
That's part of the beauty in the old Dan Wesson revolvers, precise quality control and professionalism in assembly.
I have never seen a Old Dan Wesson have any difference in the gap from cylinder to cylinder, of course this almost required as the barrel/cylinder gap can be adjusted by the gun owner .
Their 1911's ain't to shabby either!
 

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