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Discussion Starter #1
I have two recent version Millennium Pros: a PT111 9mm and a PT145 45ACP. Both are favorite guns of mine and top choices for concealed carry. However, I think the design of the manual thumb safety is flawed.

The manual states clearly that the trigger must be fully forward when activating the safety. The way the safety works is that an inner tongue portion of the thumb safety flips up as the safety is activated. This tongue moves behind the back of the trigger bar and blocks movement of the trigger and firing mechanism. However, if the trigger is pulled back slightly as the safety is being activated, the trigger bar can slip behind the tongue and not be blocked. The thumb safety will look and feel as if it is "on" yet the gun WILL FIRE with a simple pull of the trigger! Since the thumb safety also "locks" the slide to the frame, if the guns fires in this condition, serious damage could occur to the safety, slide, metal frame insert, and small parts as the recoil energy is transmitted to the thumb safety. Parts could fly off and injure the shooter or bystanders.

I have recently heard of a case of this inner tongue piece breaking off, rendering the safety inoperative, yet with a normal feel and outward appearance.

Any mechanism can fail. However, a gun safety should be as fool proof as possible. This thumb safety design is flawed and definitely not fool proof. This makes it very hard for me to recommend this otherwise excellent pistol to friends and family.

If it were up to me, I would correct the problem as follows: remove the manual thumb safety from future versions (it is listed as "optional" in the parts diagram), fill in the frame recess where the safety once was, increase the trigger return spring to give the shooter a better sense of first pull initial take up (it is too light and too smooth in my opinion), leave the SA/DA system otherwise the same. Despite teaching, your finger will likely be on the trigger in a stressful self-defense scenario. Your fine motor control will be impaired. Chucking the saftey and adding a little more resistance to inital trigger take up would make the gun better in my opinion.
 

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WildRice said:
However, if the trigger is pulled back slightly as the safety is being activated, the trigger bar can slip behind the tongue and not be blocked.
Which begs the question, do people actually engage the safety while partially pulling the trigger? Engage the safety just before the gun fires? I'm not saying WildRice doesn't have a point. But, it seems like pretty poor firearm handling to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, it would not make "sense" to have your finger on the trigger when activating the safety, but in times of stress, people have been know to do more stupid things than that. The Mil Pro has a fairly flaccid trigger return spring, so it does not take much pressure at all to falsely activate the safety. The "flaw" is not a deal breaker for me, but all Millenniumn Pro users should be aware of the possibility. That also goes for people that might borrow your Mil pro at the range. Manual safeties ought to be more fool proof. I think the gun would be better without the safety as it does not need it. On the other hand, Massad Ayoob likes manual safeties as he can recall instances where bad guys have grabbed police guns (with safeties "on"), could not fire, and thus prevented shot officers. If you don't conceal well, your CCW could get grabbed too.
 

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Poor arms handling aside, I wonder if this "feature" is unique to Taurus or if there are other manufacturer's guns that do the same?

BTW, I have owned a Glock 17 since 1990 (I found the original store receipt this weekend, woohoo!) and have always disliked its "trigger" safety. I'll take my Taurus' safety over my Glock's lack of one any day.
 

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I still don't get it. The safety is engaged when the gun is holstered. In a stressfull situation, even with poor trigger discipline, how can you engage a safety that's already engaged?
 

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Texas Solo said:
I still don't get it. The safety is engaged when the gun is holstered. In a stressfull situation, even with poor trigger discipline, how can you engage a safety that's already engaged?
Ok, the manual for the pistols says, if the trigger is pulled even slightly while applying the trigger that the safety might not engage at all, and could be fired. Several here have tested this with empty gun and it can happen.
Those trained to remove finger from trigger, think that to have finger on trigger while not firing is a NO NO. Other say under stress from a BG situation, you might do it while still holding the trigger slightly. No where did I see a safetied pistol in a holster being re-safetied. But if the safety was not set the first time, just pushing the safety on or off then on would be unusual to say the least.
 

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Both of my guns - Taurus 605 and PT1911 - continue to function flawlessly. However, I do have one small complaint:

About a month ago I ordered a set of rosewood grips for my 605 (Stock #4-400 - $39 plus shipping) and they have yet to arrive. So today I checked my credit card online. No debit yet from Taurus.

Which leads me to believe the girl I talked to (from now on I'll get names), when asked if they were in stock, said, "Oh, yeah," probably either lied or really didn't know for sure whether there were any in stock or not.

I'll call again on Monday and see what's up.
 

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One should NEVER have their finger on the trigger when engaging the safety. Having said that, it is a bit disconcerting to think the safety could look engaged and not be. I would also worry that a sloppy trigger, or tired trigger return spring could cause this issue.
 

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AZ605 said:
Both of my guns - Taurus 605 and PT1911 - continue to function flawlessly. However, I do have one small complaint:
About a month ago I ordered a set of rosewood grips for my 605 (Stock #4-400 - $39 plus shipping) and they have yet to arrive. So today I checked my credit card online. No debit yet from Taurus.

Which leads me to believe the girl I talked to (from now on I'll get names), when asked if they were in stock, said, "Oh, yeah," probably either lied or really didn't know for sure whether there were any in stock or not.

I'll call again on Monday and see what's up.
I also have a part on order and did see the charge appear on my debit card, when no part arrived for nearly a month checked debit card again and charge has since disappeared. I called to check and CS person said they were doing inventory but the part will ship now. Two days after that follow-up call and still no charge to my debit card. I'm beginning to suspect some level of BS is going on. Let me know what happens with your part order please. Maybe this needs it's own topic to see if anyone else is in limbo waiting for parts.
 

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I agree, keep the booger hook off the trigger until you are ready to fire. (Rule # 2)

If the finger is off the trigger when you engage the safety, then there is no problem. Going from a shooting position to a high ready position, the finger should be off the trigger and the safety flipped to safe. Personally I think that anyone who keeps their finger on the trigger when not in a shooting position is asking for a ND. Then again, that is my humble opinion....

Although I am not so sure why a manufacturer would make a handgun where the trigger could be slightly pulled and the flip safety not work/ Something sounds funky to me and I will have to check it out on my own gun.
 

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Checked my 2nd gen pt pro 111. Pulled the projectile from a cartridge, dumped powder and loaded in barrel. Very slightly pressed trigger and set safety. Pointed toward safe area and it fired the same as no safety. I still haven't figured out if my gun is sa/da or da/da or da/sa everything I read seems to counterdict other things. The trigger seems to pull just a little easier after the first round is fired but it may be my imagination. The manual that came with it has some incorrect and some info was also left out on how to remove the slide. I found out how to do that on this site. Glad to be here.
 

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Just from my part, I would never have finger on trigger even slightly, when setting the safety. We have found out that many semi auto may not be safe if safety is done in that manner.

I have a 3rd Gen PT111, I know mine is SA/DA"2nd strike". I am not familiar with the 1st or 2nd gen guns. It sounds like they may be DA/SA, but someone who owns one, will come along and correct this if I am wrong.
 

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Okay, say you had your finger on the trigger slightly when you applied the safety. Then, later, you flip the safety off, then back on. Does this fix the first problem of the safety not really being applied?
 

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Dear Abby,
When I step on the gas pedal of my truck a little before putting it into park I always end up running over the cat. My wife says it's me. I say there is something wrong with the truck. Please help set her straight.
Cat Lover ;)
 

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I ain't touchin' that one !! I've already pissed off my share of OP's for one week.....
 

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VegasGuy said:
Dear Abby,
When I step on the gas pedal of my truck a little before putting it into park I always end up running over the cat. My wife says it's me. I say there is something wrong with the truck. Please help set her straight.
Cat Lover ;)
Exactly! LOL

I've got a PT111.
So, it's a good to know issue, but come on.
Use the safety between your ears just a little.

right? <grin>
 

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I'm a 1911 kind of guy and adhere to strict trigger discipline as I was taught on the 1911 platform from a young age I could not imagine my finger being on the trigger as I'm applying the safety. I believe its good to know and have seen it demonstrated on you tube I don't think its a big issue. I would never pull the trigger on a loaded gun to test the safety that's a Darwin move. Kind of like looking down the barrel of a loaded gun.
 

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I've always been taught something similar to what - RJT CCW - said, "Keep your booger hook off the bang switch", "Don't point a firearm at anything you aren't willing to destroy", and the one I beat my kids with "Every gun is always loaded, PERIOD" :)

My point Wildrice is, If your family members don't have those things burned into their brains. You should recommend a gun handling/safety course first.
 

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texastaurusguy said:
Okay, say you had your finger on the trigger slightly when you applied the safety. Then, later, you flip the safety off, then back on. Does this fix the first problem of the safety not really being applied?
I tried this and yes, you can set the safety ith the trigger slightly pulled so the gun will fire even though the safety looks like it's on. But flipping the safety down then back up does re-set the safety properly. That said, if you falsely set the safety, then touch the trigger, it moves easily and should alert the user that something is wrong, because when the safety is properly set, the trigger has no play at all. At least on my new PT145.
 
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