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Report: Michigan DNR Using ‘Armed Raids’ to Enforce Feral Swine Ban | TheBlaze.com

What do you guys and gals think? My problem is that with the criteria they use most Heritage breed pigs are now classified as feral. That and the fact that the state is not reimbursing these people for loss of their property makes this illegal in my opinion.

By the way the headline is sensationalized a bit. Our Conservation Officers are always armed.
 

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Wild hogs ARE a problem where ever they manage to migrate, or are introduced into the local lands. They have two or three litters per year, often consisting of an many as 12 piglets. True ferals have longer legs than domestic swine, and are quite capable of achieving speeds of up to 30 mph, for short runs. They can travel quite well, and are famous for habitat destruction, and killing and eating the young of any species that they manage to catch. Pigs are omnivores, routinely eating meat or vegetation. Georgia has areas that are virtually overrun with wild hogs. As you move further north, they have interbred with Russian Boars, another introduced species that was supposedly limited to "game ranches". These are large animals, known for aggressive behavior.

The DNR also is assigned the protection of Heritage species of Game Animals that are native to the area, originally. That doesn't include feral pigs on the order that they have become. As for trying to do away with hunting ranches, I haven't a clue as to the veracity of the claims. However, non-native species, introduced under "controlled conditions" have historically lost those "controls" in short order, and caused permanent damage to existing eco-systems. That is easily obtainable information from just a basic Google search. Such a disaster continues long after the "game ranches" have paid whatever fine was levied against them.

FYI, Heritage breed is a newly minted term, with definitions that expand to encompass whatever the user means. It doesn't exist outside of that.
 

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I have a problem with it. These animals are livestock on private property. Here if you shoot at a ranchers livestock on his private property without his consent that rancher is liable to shoot back! The state is taking something from them and not reimbursing them for it.

Horses and cattle are non native, are they next in Michigan?

We have a huge hog problem here in Texas, but we shoot (and eat!) them! You can even hunt them from a helicopter if your wallet allows you to!
 

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Yeah, I was reading a bit about this on a different forum last night. When I first read it I thought they (the MDNR) were shooting feral hogs and thought "Gettem!", then I realized they were trespassing on people land and shooting domestic hogs. There's just about no current domestic animal that's "native" to the United States, hell...even a lot of our vegetables aren't "native".

These buttheads want to go get something invasive...go after the %^@%^@#%@#^&&^$%&$%^&ing jumping Asian Carp and the Snakeheads that are killing off our fisheries and making the waterways hazardous.

And, I'm sorry, but if the Michigan DNR is as ridiculously stupid/naive as the WI DNR is, then they should be the LAST ones to decide what animals can go and what animals can stay. The WI DNR released something like 400-500 freaking rattlesnakes in northern Wisconsin....to eat turkey eggs because the turkey population's too high. REALLY? Release a venomous reptile to eliminate turkey eggs? Why not just increase the number of hunting tags to be sold?

We just got the Wolf off the endangered species list, now they want to have a hunting season...same with Sandhill Cranes of all things.

And don't even get me going on what they're doing to our deer herds.
 

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Want to ruin something good? Just add some government to the mix. It works every time. Sadly, we don't seem to learn this fact.
 

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It doesn't make a lot of sense. This from the state which allowed "feral" dog hunts of domestic dogs left behind to run wild in vacation areas (essentially left behind after the owner's vacation was over). The population had gotten out of control to the point that sportsmen were being allowed to hunt them. Quite a paradox indeed!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have a problem with it. These animals are livestock on private property. Here if you shoot at a ranchers livestock on his private property without his consent that rancher is liable to shoot back! The state is taking something from them and not reimbursing them for it.
That's my problem too. Not trying to argue that feral hogs aren't an issue. I'm not native to Texas. If I move down there does that automatically make me an invasive species?

P.S. Further research indicates that our state AG sent word down the pipe that any livestock owned by farms involved in litigation against the DNR are off limits. Maybe there's still hope.
 

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I'm not native to Texas. If I move down there does that automatically make me an invasive species?
Would you vote for Obama or anyone like him? If so, I think you would qualify as an invasive species! You might get a residency permit in Austin though... :D
 

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"Ohhhh Green Acres is the place to be!...."

Sorry, the voices made me do it.
 

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Would you vote for Obama or anyone like him? If so, I think you would qualify as an invasive species! You might get a residency permit in Austin though... :D
If I ever even come close to saying or doing something like that you have my permission to "end the threat" if you know what I mean. So what's going to happen to Austin once you guys secede from the Union? You gonna dump it in the Gulf?
 

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I'm curious, there was a comment period for the proposed ban, then a six month plus grace period to allow the "livestock" to be sold or otherwise disposed of. During that time, nobody thought to seek an injunction stopping this? What? Did they think it was going to go away because they didn't like it?

There happens to be a legal definition as to what determines an invasive species. Talking about horses and cattle is simply stupid, as anyone who can read would be able to define what it is. Same with moving to another state.

I didn't know that Wisconsin had a tag system for turkey. Do they? Normally, a tag system is simply to find out what types of animals are taken, and where. If it was meant that there was a limit on licenses, I don't think that applies to turkey there, either. Resident License Information - Wisconsin DNR Nope, no mention of limiting the number of licenses.

If turkeys are overpopulating the state, it's because the hunters don't want to get them.

There is also a definition for livestock in the law. Feral pigs don't fit it. Raising them for sport hunting is NOT raising livestock, and, as they are defined as an invasive species, they are subject to the DNR's purview. Listening to this blather, raising lions and tigers for game purposes should also be unfettered, as this is the exact same principle. Perhaps the DNR should be forced to allow Asian Carp to be pond raised there? Or perhaps Water Buffalo in fenced fields?

It would appear that this is a particularly single-sided issue at this point. Perhaps, if the people involved had followed the basic means of redress through the courts, this would never have become an issue. At this point, there is nothing in evidence to support the claim that this is based solely on an attempt to reduce game farms, and not on sound management of wildlife. Instead, it appears, as hard as it is to believe, that the DNR followed the laws, and it's the growers who ignored the issue until seizure of assets was indicated. Forget the crap about private property, and "private livestock", if you tried to raise lions, they'd seize them, at gun-point if necessary, and you wouldn't be "reimbursed for your property, either.

It appears that they never addressed the issue with their politicians, the courts, or the DNR during it's mandated period of comments. Ignoring the law doesn't make it go away. Nor does crying wolf make the enforcers of the law guilty of anything.

This just doesn't pass the sniff test.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I'm curious, there was a comment period for the proposed ban, then a six month plus grace period to allow the "livestock" to be sold or otherwise disposed of. During that time, nobody thought to seek an injunction stopping this? What? Did they think it was going to go away because they didn't like it?

There happens to be a legal definition as to what determines an invasive species. Talking about horses and cattle is simply stupid, as anyone who can read would be able to define what it is. Same with moving to another state.

I didn't know that Wisconsin had a tag system for turkey. Do they? Normally, a tag system is simply to find out what types of animals are taken, and where. If it was meant that there was a limit on licenses, I don't think that applies to turkey there, either. Resident License Information - Wisconsin DNR Nope, no mention of limiting the number of licenses.

If turkeys are overpopulating the state, it's because the hunters don't want to get them.

There is also a definition for livestock in the law. Feral pigs don't fit it. Raising them for sport hunting is NOT raising livestock, and, as they are defined as an invasive species, they are subject to the DNR's purview. Listening to this blather, raising lions and tigers for game purposes should also be unfettered, as this is the exact same principle. Perhaps the DNR should be forced to allow Asian Carp to be pond raised there? Or perhaps Water Buffalo in fenced fields?

It would appear that this is a particularly single-sided issue at this point. Perhaps, if the people involved had followed the basic means of redress through the courts, this would never have become an issue. At this point, there is nothing in evidence to support the claim that this is based solely on an attempt to reduce game farms, and not on sound management of wildlife. Instead, it appears, as hard as it is to believe, that the DNR followed the laws, and it's the growers who ignored the issue until seizure of assets was indicated. Forget the crap about private property, and "private livestock", if you tried to raise lions, they'd seize them, at gun-point if necessary, and you wouldn't be "reimbursed for your property, either.

It appears that they never addressed the issue with their politicians, the courts, or the DNR during it's mandated period of comments. Ignoring the law doesn't make it go away. Nor does crying wolf make the enforcers of the law guilty of anything.

This just doesn't pass the sniff test.
We'll just have to agree to disagree then.
 

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The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department has been considering a feral hog bounty system similar to the system that was successfully used on Coyotes during the 50's/60's. The problem of funding has been the major drawback. I know I'd be able to pay for all my hunting expenses off a few hundred hog ears. (If it ever becomes reality, maybe they'll consider expanding the bounty to border crossers.)
 

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Feral pigs mean folks have a ready source of protein if all they have is a half acre and a hog trap to put on it. Perhaps the gubment doesn't appreciate the independence of folks from food stamps? Just sayin'.....

Sounds unconstitutional to me.
 

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It doesn't just sound un-Constitutional, it's not legal for the government to just make an arbitrary decision and then claim the right. If the only checks and balances involved in this fight was for a rancher to file a complaint then this is an outright attack on freedom. I don't know why it's so difficult to see socialism and fascism and just call it what it is. As law abiding citizens we are being slowly but surely pushed to the edge of the cliff. We have allowed our government at too many levels bottom to top to have too much power and authority and it's time to start taking it back.
 

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If I ever even come close to saying or doing something like that you have my permission to "end the threat" if you know what I mean. So what's going to happen to Austin once you guys secede from the Union? You gonna dump it in the Gulf?
Nahh Austin is kinda like the crazy uncle.. he's still family!

There is actually a website and campaign to "Keep Austin Weird" kinda says it all! :D
 

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Just file a complaint? Read it again, please. There is a mandated comment period before such rules may be initiated. There are also politicians that can, and do, control this DNR. Last, but not least, a judge can review the DNR policy, and issue an injunction stopping it's implementation. NONE of this is available in a socialist or fascist state.

Instead of automatically running and circles and shouting "the sky is falling" ask yourselves why none of these steps was taken? It certainly isn't because of a lack of funding, or attorney presence.

Invasive species, as I said, are defined under law. Michigan law also defines what the DNR may do to combat them. Perhaps if, instead of immediately running into the closet for tin foil, a little research into the results of feral hogs, and the environmental damage that they present, would even out the dialogue. We constantly rail against the "business as usual" policies of Congress, yet, when an agency identifies a problem, and acts upon it, the first response is "we've been doing this for years". What's up with that?

Feral hogs were NEVER meant to exist in the wild. They combine the worst aspects of both wild boars, and domestic swine. Ask farmers who plant in areas where feral hogs frequent about losses and damage. Perhaps that will open a few eyes.

Having our freedoms reduced? Overall, I'd say yes, particularly in this day and age. However, who elects these people? Why, WE do.

At the least try to pick an example that is more of a clear-cut abuse, and less a matter of a difference of opinion. Running blindly for the "fascism and socialism" label is a perfect example of what we accuse the "masses" of doing. You know, "the sheeple".
 
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