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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since about this time last summer, I have become friends with a client of mine from Syria who originally was a Methodist in Syria (strange world) and then became a Muslim when he married a lady who is Muslim, in the USA. I suspect he is about as strong a Muslim as he was a Methodist, as he stocks dark Shiner Beer, and only drinks when I visit his house. His first question is always, can I get you a beer?" Oh, and he is also a Nuclear engineer. His 17 year old son had never shot or held a gun until he met me, and with his parents permission, he held my 1911 and my Bersa 22-6 about 5 months ago, and I had promised to take them shooting, and we had trouble getting weekends to work for both of us, and I have to drive 35 miles to shoot now.

I finally took them today. I found a good chart on proper sighting or proper sight picture, and a good set of gun safety rules, which I went over them verbally as we drove out from my memory and then gave him the printed set after the fun part was over.

It was kind of windy today, but we were down in a draw with a good grove of trees and the wind was okay.

Guns I took, and the order they shot them.

S & W 3,000 20 gauge Pump (circa 1978, hunting shotgun, not defensive) and I had light loads of birdshot as well as couple of slugs and a couple of #3 buckshot loads to demonstrate the versatility of the shotgun l I opened the crimp on a birdshot load so the kid could see the size of those (7 1/2 shot)
and described the buckshot load, and he could see the slug. Then I turned him loose on six gallon jugs of water. I took some clay pigeons and a hand thrower, and the old man hit the three I threw for him. I discussed the limitations and advantages with the kid.

Marlin Model 60 /Scoped I set up a target about 40 yards away and a few clay pigeons standing on edge in prairie grass, explained the Marlin to the kid and the three of us took turns shooting freehand standing. The kid probably shot it about 3 times, 10 rounds each, the old man (10 years younger than me) two rounds of 10 and I shot one round of 10.

Then I brought out a Rexio Pucara .22 revolver, 9 shot, with a 6" barrel. I bought this used a year ago (cheap) just to have a .22 revolver for new shooters. Reviews I read about these weren't very good and they were only imported a couple of years from Argentina back in 1998-2000. It really a Dirty Harry looking gun, the grips are too small, but I've taken it out more than a half a dozen times and it has been impressive with function and accuracy. I had a target stand for this shooting and started the kid out at 5 yards, and he finally started getting the hang of it, shooting it about 45 rounds or so. I shot 9 through it as did the old man.

Then a Model 66 S & W and we shot a box of light .38 special reloads, and a couple of cylinder loads of 158 grain 357 magnums so they would know the difference. On my 5th shot, I hit a gallon jug of water at 30 yards, and it blew a lot harder than the water jugs did with the shotgun.

I also had a center-fire caliber double pendulum target we shot at.

Then out came the Ruger Mark/45 and the introduction to semi-auto pistols. Again, back to paper at 5 yards, and as expected, the kid fell in love with it, all kids and adults usually do. About a 100 rounds later, punching paper, the pendulum target, and one of those dayglow orange rubber throw on the ground targets.

Then the Generation 2 Mil-pro PT-145, I decided to wait for another trip or two before taking the 1911. The 2nd Generation PT-145 has a double action only trigger which I feel much safer with a new shooter, besides, I shoot well with it. The kid only shot a couple of mags through it, as did the old man and me both. I bounced that orange thingy pretty good.

In all, we shot for 3 hours, mostly taking turns, but the kid did shoot the Ruger Mark while we shot the PT-145.

All in all, for a lot of fun for 70 rounds of .45 acp, 50 rounds of .38 special reloads, 12 rounds of .357 magnum, 250 rounds of .22, 10 20 gauge birdshot loads, 2 buckshot loads and two slugs.

What I'm not so sure about, I'll be going with a Muslim to buy a Ruger Mark/45 and and a shotgun next week....I just can't wrap my mind around that.
 

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Why the concern now? Did something happen to change your opinion of these 2?
 
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I say let his religion be his own concern. If he chooses to bend the rules its on him. Just be glad to have a new shooting buddy. The way it sounds perhaps this time next year he'll be Catholic, or Lutheran, or wiccan or....doesnt matter, just make sure he helps supply some ammo to burn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Why the concern now? Did something happen to change your opinion of these 2?
No, not at all, I had fun! But I always do when I teach people to shoot. These just happen to be the first Muslim folks I have ever known this well, and it take me some getting used to the idea.

It took me a little while to get used to the first Hindus I became friends with.

Thirty or so years ago, I had mostly only be acquainted with mostly Mexican, Canadian, Germans, Italians, Chinese, South Koreans and Japanese, but I have been very acquainted with a lot of folks from India in the past 15 years, and now many more middle easterners. At a point, well over half of my clientele became what I would call, foreigners which I began to discuss cultures and laws with, and it has been very interesting.

The uprising in Syria, for example, this fellow was saying it was brought about by Al Quida 2 months before any of the news media ever did, and his statement beared out to be true.

Of course, one topic of discussion is always about gun laws in different countries. The Syrian is very impressed with our second amendment and believes in the importance of it, and he doesn't think our way of life can survive without it, so he really is a good guy.
 

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No, not at all, I had fun! But I always do when I teach people to shoot. These just happen to be the first Muslim folks I have ever known this well, and it take me some getting used to the idea.

It took me a little while to get used to the first Hindus I became friends with.

Thirty or so years ago, I had mostly only be acquainted with mostly Mexican, Canadian, Germans, Italians, Chinese, South Koreans and Japanese, but I have been very acquainted with a lot of folks from India in the past 15 years, and now many more middle easterners. At a point, well over half of my clientele became what I would call, foreigners which I began to discuss cultures and laws with, and it has been very interesting.

The uprising in Syria, for example, this fellow was saying it was brought about by Al Quida 2 months before any of the news media ever did, and his statement beared out to be true.

Of course, one topic of discussion is always about gun laws in different countries. The Syrian is very impressed with our second amendment and believes in the importance of it, and he doesn't think our way of life can survive without it, so he really is a good guy.
Sounds like you've had plenty of contact with these folks and you seem like an intelligent fella. Your concerns alone are a sign of intelligence. It means your eyes are open and you're evaluating things as carefully as you can. If you've seen enough good in them to go this far then I'd have to say keep going with it. I say good for you for forming your own opinions and educating these guys. There's plenty of bad in this world and apparently you don't see that here with these two.
 

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If your friend drinks beer He will need to be able to shoot if Radical Muslims ever come into power in this country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sounds like you've had plenty of contact with these folks and you seem like an intelligent fella. Your concerns alone are a sign of intelligence. It means your eyes are open and you're evaluating things as carefully as you can. If you've seen enough good in them to go this far then I'd have to say keep going with it. I say good for you for forming your own opinions and educating these guys. There's plenty of bad in this world and apparently you don't see that here with these two.
Down here in Lubbock, all we ever hear about Muslims, is mostly bad. The good ones don't make the news. I like to think there are good people no matter where you go. Heck, in 1970, I used to go to a strip club owned by the Hell's Angels, and never had a problem! A few years later, I ventured into a strip club owned by the Bandidos! Got along with folks real well, but you never cross them.

The countries I have had clients from grow year by year. Last year added Morocco and the most surprising, Bangladesh (That's a great country to be away from, and I haven't come to know that fellow very well to be able to ask him how he got out of there, maybe not as tough as getting out of North Korea.

A lot of folks have some interesting stories, so real horror stories. A Chinese I know well in Hotel and Restaurant Management at Tech (TTU), was in the Southern portion of China when the Communist overthrew his province and he described a scene much like the original Red Dawn, only without paratroopers. Kids and teachers were being shot at the schools, and he and his sister escaped into the woods or jungle. I think he lost many family members in the overthrow. I'd like to get to visit with him more one on one, he is a friend of my wife's, and he has been very gracious to send me any clients he can, and I get a lot of folks from other countries through him and other members of that department.

On the medical school side of the campus, I've had folks from all over also, Europe, India, South and Central America, Thailand, Taiwan, Vietnam, Surinam, Fiji.

It's really hard to say who the toughest negotiators are, but Middle Easterners and Indians have been at it for thousands of years and claim bragging rights when they have a party, but I've had tough ones of all nationalities.

I'm always curious to here their story, how they wound up coming to America, most are from well to do families, or at least the very small middle class of their counties, which seem rich by most standards.

Others came here the hard way, basically as indentured servants working for successful business people from their own country. I knew a Chinese lady with two restaurants, who had people come over from China and work for much less than minimum wage to pay off their sponsorship and transportation. She would stack them like cordwood in these houses that should have been condemned. That is why Asian eateries always stay in business, cheap, cheap labor, of which all hope to eventually have their own business and indentured servants. These folks are amongst the world's most industrious people, the ones who come here the hard way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Meeting these folks also reaffirms to me how lucky I have been to be born where I was, and when I die, you can bury me in Lubbock, TX in my jeans!:)
 

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Just a thought all the 911 guys were allowed to deceive us by going to strip clubs and drink and break all the Muslim rules its their way of Martyrdom. Be vary careful. I have a few Muslim friends and I new them before they converted, work folks. They changed and said they would rather die then fight another Muslim.
Just my experience nothing thats set in stone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Communists are generally atheists, I do not beleive our current leader to break that mold.
Our current leader will be Muslim until he uses them to get total power, and then deal with a smaller enemy, or the last one.
 

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Jake you need to trust your gut feeling on this... Time will tell..
 

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Another aspect to point out is that this was a bonding of friends over something very sacred to Americans and something unheard of to non Americans. It can be very enlightening to others to realize that yes, guns can be used for good purposes that don't include harming other people. Milk jugs and clays are another story, they MUST be erraticated. As your new shooting buddy starts to understand you, and you start to understand him, you will find common ground and even some beliefs. It's the minutae that we squabble over. All you need to accomplish is to instill in his mind that not all non-muslims are infidels. Some are genuinely good people, honorable and respectable people.
 
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If they turn out to be BG's it is not on you. They are responsible for their own actions. It would be like blaming the guy who taught them how to drive (assuming they used an auto to get to where they injured people).

Hopefully, your concerns are unwarranted and you now have some more buddies to go shooting.
 
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