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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I heard about this a day or so after New Years and did not think too much of it.

Initial reports were that police responded to a shots fired call, found this man shooting in the air, identified themselves as the Police, and when the man did not drop the gun, he was shot.

Well, the bodycam as well as the man's wife, who was standing right beside him when he was shot, dispute that narrative.

While I agree what this man was doing was stupid, should the penalty for stupid be death?

Read the article below and see what you think.

Father of 5 allegedly sprayed gunfire into the air to celebrate New Year's Day. Seconds later, he was shot and killed by police.
 

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I just saw the body cam video and didn't hear any audio. I can't say if the police office identified himself and gave commands. All I saw was the office fire through a 6 foot privacy fence at what I presume were muzzle flashes. No, being stupid should not automatically come with a death sentence just as having a badge isn't a license to kill because you're nervous in the service. That being said I'll wait for all the facts to come out.

That and I can't say the wife is looking for big payday but whenever I hear someone saying they're looking for justice it usually comes with a high price tag.
 

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She claimed she was standing a couple of feet from him when shot. But then…

According to Marquetta, James Williams stepped in and out of the house twice to spray gunfire into the air. But after the second time, he ran back into the house telling her that he'd been hit.
"I could see the blood splattering across his shirt," she said. "He collapsed in the living room."

I’ll wait for the investigation to be completed. Smells funky.
 

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It is disingenuous to characterize a killing as being a penalty or sentence for behavior. These characterizations are almost always taken out of context, and to cloud the actual facts. To say the death penalty is too harsh for stupidity makes it sound as if this guy was killed for no reason. It plays in to the narrative that police actions are always bad.

The death penalty shouldn't be in effect for passing a bad check either. But, when you put it in the context of a fatal dose of illegal drugs causing respiratory failure, it changes the narrative. Just a little of the truth being clouded by clever people with an agenda means the difference between an unfortunate death by overdose, and months of riots.
 

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I heard about this a day or so after New Years and did not think too much of it.

Initial reports were that police responded to a shots fired call, found this man shooting in the air, identified themselves as the Police, and when the man did not drop the gun, he was shot.

Well, the bodycam as well as the man's wife, who was standing right beside him when he was shot, dispute that narrative.

While I agree what this man was doing was stupid, should the penalty for stupid be death?

Read the article below and see what you think.

Father of 5 allegedly sprayed gunfire into the air to celebrate New Year's Day. Seconds later, he was shot and killed by police.
One thing to always remember is to get all relevant facts before passing judgment.
The vide is dark and unclear but the officer did alot of yelling.
I will need to watch it again for the timeline, but if the guy is firing the officer doesn't have much choice but to react with force, the shooter can continue shooting and swing to bear on a voice if he so desires and then the officer doesn't go home.
Generally you play stupid games you win stupid prizes....is it fair, no, but is shooting an armed suspect who is discharging a weapon in a residential area in a reckless manner justified for safety, yes.
 

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It is disingenuous to characterize a killing as being a penalty or sentence for behavior. These characterizations are almost always taken out of context, and to cloud the actual facts. To say the death penalty is too harsh for stupidity makes it sound as if this guy was killed for no reason. It plays in to the narrative that police actions are always bad.

The death penalty shouldn't be in effect for passing a bad check either. But, when you put it in the context of a fatal dose of illegal drugs causing respiratory failure, it changes the narrative. Just a little of the truth being clouded by clever people with an agenda means the difference between an unfortunate death by overdose, and months of riots.


And just as bad, these people were probably committing felonies by blazing away with their traditional, celebratory mass shooting to have fun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It is disingenuous to characterize a killing as being a penalty or sentence for behavior. These characterizations are almost always taken out of context, and to cloud the actual facts. To say the death penalty is too harsh for stupidity makes it sound as if this guy was killed for no reason. It plays in to the narrative that police actions are always bad.

The death penalty shouldn't be in effect for passing a bad check either. But, when you put it in the context of a fatal dose of illegal drugs causing respiratory failure, it changes the narrative. Just a little of the truth being clouded by clever people with an agenda means the difference between an unfortunate death by overdose, and months of riots.
One thing to always remember is to get all relevant facts before passing judgment.
The vide is dark and unclear but the officer did alot of yelling.
I will need to watch it again for the timeline, but if the guy is firing the officer doesn't have much choice but to react with force, the shooter can continue shooting and swing to bear on a voice if he so desires and then the officer doesn't go home.
Generally you play stupid games you win stupid prizes....is it fair, no, but is shooting an armed suspect who is discharging a weapon in a residential area in a reckless manner justified for safety, yes.
The officer did not yell anything at the shooter in the video provided in the link. He shot through a fence in the direction of the shooting.

The officer was actually telling dispatch that he had observed someone shooting that was putting his gun away when the additional shooting began. This matches what the wife said in regards to him going out to shoot twice.

It appears that this ritual was a tradition in this house and perhaps this neighborhood.

If you notice, there was no blue lights flashing in the video.

This tells me that the man had no idea that the police were even there.

I do not want Police that shoot first and ask questions later. I want Police Officers that make their presence known whether it is by lights and PA announcement or yelling, but they need to identify themselves and give a person a chance to stop whatever it is they are doing. If the person then attempts to shoot at the officer, then by all means they should get shot.
 

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In the video, the unidentified officer runs up to the household after hearing spontaneous gunfire and blindly fires multiple rounds through an enclosed wooden fence.
On another site I saw a pic of the fence with the bullet holes in it. The cop did not fire through slats, the area where the holes are doesn't have any gaps that you can see through. This makes me wonder how did the cop know that there wasn't some innocent children behind the fence also? Or was he even thinking about that when he fired?
 

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The officer did not yell anything at the shooter in the video provided in the link. He shot through a fence in the direction of the shooting.

The officer was actually telling dispatch that he had observed someone shooting that was putting his gun away when the additional shooting began. This matches what the wife said in regards to him going out to shoot twice.

It appears that this ritual was a tradition in this house and perhaps this neighborhood.

If you notice, there was no blue lights flashing in the video.

This tells me that the man had no idea that the police were even there.

I do not want Police that shoot first and ask questions later. I want Police Officers that make their presence known whether it is by lights and PA announcement or yelling, but they need to identify themselves and give a person a chance to stop whatever it is they are doing. If the person then attempts to shoot at the officer, then by all means they should get shot.
The questions this video leaves are many which is why we need all the facts.
If he observed him putting the gun away that would lead one to believe the shot was after that which would lead one to believe it was in the second round of firing. Did a different officer shoot him, did he get hit by someone else's round if this neighborhood is known for that?
More questions than answers at this point and lots of investigation required before the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The questions this video leaves are many which is why we need all the facts.
If he observed him putting the gun away that would lead one to believe the shot was after that which would lead one to believe it was in the second round of firing. Did a different officer shoot him, did he get hit by someone else's round if this neighborhood is known for that?
More questions than answers at this point and lots of investigation required before the answer.
If you listen to what the officer whose bodycam video is in the link, that officer is telling Dispatch that he observed the suspect shooting then going back in to the house. You then hear shooting begin behind the fence and the officer immediately shoots through the fence. It is the same officer.

But you are correct, there are a lot of questions that need answers.
 

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I wasn't there and the video from the bodycam doesn't show enough for me to take any definitive stance on this one, so I'm just going to say that there's most likely blame to be had on both sides of this.

On one hand, shooting a gun into the air is moronic and incredibly hazardous since there's this little thing here on planet Earth called gravity that some folks seem incapable of fully understanding eventhough the basic scientific description; "What goes up must come down" really ought to be clear enough of a description for folks to understand why you shouldn't shoot bullets up into the air as a form of celebration.
On the other hand, stupid people routinely discharge firearms during New Years and Independence Day, so a report of shots fired on either holiday should probably be investigated with that in mind, and police shouldn't automatically shoot someone just because they haven't immediately complied as long as they haven't done anything threatening/hostile.

But once again, I wasn't there, and a clear picture of how this all unfolded isn't immediately available, so what actually happened remains a mystery at this point.
 

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Overzealous officer!!! Would think that officers are trained better than to shoot in a situation like that without at least identifying himself as an officer first and shooting blindly at a fence not knowing what is behind. Could have been young children in the close vicinity. Can clearly see the person firing up in the air. This should have ended differently.
 

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I just watched the video 3 more times, much easier to follow without sun glare while sitting in my truck.
Officer didn't warn til after shooting, no flashing lights and no visibility of anything but gun smoke, BUT with the way that guy was firing in the air and the officer being on the other side of that fence I'm sure he was concerned for his safety as that guy could have easily done the same thing shooting through the fence at the officer.
Definitely going to be an interesting court case and I wonder when the riots will start.
 

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I'm going to wait this one out. Shooting into the air has always been one of those here hold my beer kinda things. The cop Shooting though the fence is a big no no in my book.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk
 

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Shooting through an obstacle (the fence) without identifying the threat/target. IMO, this is the salient point. I do not believe the officer can reasonably state he was in fear of his life if he could not positively identify the threat.
 

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The officer did not yell anything at the shooter in the video provided in the link. He shot through a fence in the direction of the shooting.

The officer was actually telling dispatch that he had observed someone shooting that was putting his gun away when the additional shooting began. This matches what the wife said in regards to him going out to shoot twice.

It appears that this ritual was a tradition in this house and perhaps this neighborhood.

If you notice, there was no blue lights flashing in the video.

This tells me that the man had no idea that the police were even there.

I do not want Police that shoot first and ask questions later. I want Police Officers that make their presence known whether it is by lights and PA announcement or yelling, but they need to identify themselves and give a person a chance to stop whatever it is they are doing. If the person then attempts to shoot at the officer, then by all means they should get shot.
All the initial reports I read of this incident, including statements by a dept. representative basically coincide with what you've said here. The officer apparently didn't identify himself, until after firing shots blindly thru the fence....If this is the actual case remains to be seen but the body cam seems to allude to this as the fact of the matter.

Shooting through an obstacle (the fence) without identifying the threat/target. IMO, this is the salient point. I do not believe the officer can reasonably state he was in fear of his life if he could not positively identify the threat.
Yep -nor based on what we know (so far), could he have possibly seen if there were others on the porch or in the line of fire either?
 
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