Taurus Firearm Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As prefaced by my range report http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/taurus-revolvers/66551-m-605-range-report.html this revolver has terrific action. I did have an incident of leading and bit of bronze on the forcing cone. I had at least one flier from each cylinder at a bench rest at 7yds multiple times. I picked up a range rod today to take the guesswork out. Four of the cylinder bores had acceptable clearances with very minuet hangups, acceptable for a self defense firearm. One bore would not allow the rod to pass through. This is unacceptable, rendering this firearm unsafe out of tolerance (timing) and out of the question for CCW. Will be requesting a shipping label on Monday.

I am going to try to request a refund for this firearm M605 since my other two are being replaced already(M327 and M617).

It does not make sense to continue to request replacements. This firearm replaced a SSM85 where the frame was out of tolerance, the pins that held the trigger and the hammer mechanism were way off. The SSM85 replaced a M650 with serious timing issues. Inevitably a refund will save Taurus money since this is the second revolver replacement on the original ticket, or the third gun. The first revolver M650 was sent in three times and was mailed back three times and then rendered unrepairable the second revolver was mailed in three times and returned twice since they kept it the third time. This revolver will be sent in first time next week. That is a total of 12 overnight shipments (there and back) at roughly $50 each in the neighborhood of $600 total retail in shipping alone, not including the gun smithing which I am sure will put it in the neighborhood of a $1000.

I will follow up with a letter to; The review board and Mr. Kresser. I think this information is very useful for Taurus International so that they can document it and continue to improve the quality control.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
Sorry to hear about your issues. As you know, I've recently returned my 605 twice and Taurus has not addressed all of the issues yet. So I will return it a third time. It has been frustrating, especially after I clearly described all of the issues. I figured they would get it right the second time after falling short the first. But they have not. Hoping the third time is the charm...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Hello Righty
Please if you're going to send it in for the third time author Mr Kresser a letter. Send it separately next day air to his attention. As I have stated before CS is doing a terrific job and making things right, better than just about any company I have dealt with however the repair department is falling way short and will inevitably cause loyal Taurus customers to go elsewhere. Taurus by mandating that their warranty requires customers to take any and all service and repair work to them makes Taurus International the exclusive gunsmith. In other words if the gun is worked on by the customer, or an outside gunsmith it voids the warranty.

The only dialog between the customer and the repair department is from the notes input by CS who in most cases are unfamiliar with firearms and repairs other than the manual, their limited training and reiterating what you are telling them. The customers letters which are included with the firearm are limited to the customers knowledge of firearms. From conversations with CS there may also be a language barrier, although CS is is prohibited from really interacting with the repair department they do inevitably run into them in passing, many of them may be English as a second language speakers. The service department is untouchable at Taurus. The only real way to communicate effectively is through the review board and many times that does not work either. The frustration is exacerbated when you may know enough about firearms to know exactly what is wrong but still require Taurus to repair it based on parts restrictions and the express warranty and then receive a firearm back that has been incorrectly repaired. Maybe if enough concerned customers bring this to Mr. Kressers attention, it may prompt Taurus International to revisit the repair approach and tweak the procedures and protocols to lessen the occurrence of multiple repairs. I don't see how this approach can be successful or profitable in the long run and must be costing Taurus a huge amount of overhead unless they have figured out a way to turn repeat repairs into re-occurring revenue streams.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
While my return did include a letter to the review board, it was not cc to Mr Kresser. In that letter I explained each individual issue. Of the two main issues, they repaired one and not the other. If they had addressed both, I'd be pleased right now. What I got back was a repair slip that told me what was replaced with no other information. If they had called before sending it back or had someone reviewed my issues letter, they would have avoided another return. They need a QA step after repair before ship. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Send a separate letter to Mr Kresser. I did it and he read mine. He definitely takes notice based on the response I got. I am sure he is so busy that these type of letters provide him with a unique insight he may not get from managers and the likes who may not want to fully divulge problems due to appearing inefficient. I was a corporate guy once too and "yes" was the magic word, LOL. The bottom line is the guy realty follows through he just needs to know what's up and if enough people let him know he'll do what's nevessary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
I'll have to try that. Monday it goes back again...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,779 Posts
If I might, it may have to do with the fact that most new gunsmiths aren't exactly brimming with experience. Face it, Novak and Heinie aren't working at a repair shop anymore. Fact of the matter is, I seriously doubt that revolvers are high on the list of qualifications anybody's new gunsmith possesses. It may not be right, but I'm thinking that it's true.

By all means contact the CEO, and you might mention that to him, as well.

I take a range rod along with me when looking for a revolver. You'd be surprised at how many S&W, Charter Arms, and Ruger revolvers, new ones, have issues passing the rod test. In today's market, it pays off quickly to perform testing with such rods, and feeler gauges for barrel-cylinder gap. Visual inspection of the forcing cone, under bright light, can also give you warning of serious problems. Then, I also look down the bore. It's handy to have rifling, and no tool marks. A set of gunsmith screwdrivers will enable you to check various fittings for problems like stripped threads, or cross-threaded components, too.

Remember, most shops are of the opinion that, once you buy it, it's yours. You deal with the manufacturer, and the associated costs. A little due diligence can be a real money-saver. We can complain until we're blue in the face over "what ought to be", but, if you buy a problem, it's yours. Good luck, fellows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Point well taken JR, the bore rod is a new weapon in my revolver checking tool arsenal. I know what you mean about other guns as well. I came across a really nice looking used S&W model 15. Very nice on the eyes. Upon further inspection, the bolt had a very strange lock up that seemed to hang up the action and the B/C clearance was .010 :(, I politely walked away from that one.

Nothing makes gun salesmen more nervous than the feeler gage, bore scope and Gramma's x10 glasses dangling off the tip of my nose. Next time I'll bring the screw drivers and bore rod and they'll probably put me at the end of the counter in the corner LOL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,779 Posts
In the corner only means that you won't be bothered while you check things out. :) Been there, dome that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
While my return did include a letter to the review board, it was not cc to Mr Kresser. In that letter I explained each individual issue. Of the two main issues, they repaired one and not the other. If they had addressed both, I'd be pleased right now. What I got back was a repair slip that told me what was replaced with no other information. If they had called before sending it back or had someone reviewed my issues letter, they would have avoided another return. They need a QA step after repair before ship. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
Good Luck my friend the second trip back with mine I sent letter to the reviw board and the repair manager along with photos ,"just in case some one couldn't understand the problem" didn't help much other than it was shipped back the day after they got it,not 3 1/2 weeks later. you can ck my last post on the thrird return ,Mr Kresser. had a letter sent seperately before the gun was picked up along with letters to the same other two all along with more Photos. I requested a replacemnet . it's been hammered on to much already , FUBAR basically in my opinion ~~RR~~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
Well I authored a letter to Kresser and review board and sent it away about 10 days ago to Taurus. They informed me today that I am getting a replacement. Yahoo! Similar to yours rim, and Adeste's, mine was clearly a problem and they realized on the third trip that they couldn't fix it properly. They made an effort, for which I commend them for, but they fubared it to the point where it had become a marginal weapon at best. I also commend them for realizing that they had to replace it. The reps and managers are very good and do their best to try and make the problem right. I am very satisfied in Taurus cs in handling this matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
A update on the replacement M617/M327 that I mentioned in my original post of this thread. They arrived at my FFL about ten days ago. Strangely enough Taurus did not include my info (name, address, etc.) with the firearms so my FFL did not know who they were for. I also did not get an update from Taurus that they were shipped?! My FFL was pretty peeved at me since I did not give them a heads up and they did not know who the guns were for. Anyway I got Taurus to fax over a copy of the order with my info on it the other day and I went to inspect them today. The M327 looked decent (I think), the back strap was slightly under .060 and the B/C clearance was .002 with one cylinder on the border of .0017 a little tight for lead bullets but we'll see. The important thing was the timing looked good (which was the reason it was replaced). Trigger and Hammer were tight. The cylinder had the usual play however seemed to lock up pretty good and consistently in full lock up.

The 617 was a disaster. The B/C clearance was .008 and .009 on a few. At least three cylinder bores overlapped the forcing cone, so gun will be leading. I have been through this before. Cylinder had allot of play and in full lock up had different lock up for each bore, some tight some not so much. Strangely enough even though the ejector screw was on tight the cylinder had allot of end play when it was open, not so much closed, but still sloppy. I have always been advised, especially by folks here, that I did not have to accept a firearm if it was not up to snuff. I told my FFL that I am not accepting this firearm and they stated that was fine, however, they are still charging me the FFL fee for it since they had to put it in their system and now have to take it out of their system which requires time and paperwork, to send it back to Taurus(even though shipping is covered by Taurus). When I questioned them about it they went into a big spiel about how firearms go through a process when an FFL accepts them and this takes time and effort ..... I did not argue with them. I was very polite, however I have already found a new FFL. I also accepted the 617 on the premise that Taurus will issue me a FedEx label to ship it back and if I wanted to I could take the NIB 617 and possibly trade it.

I went to my gun club and discussed the matter with them since they are an FFL as well (my new one that is LOL). They have two guns I am interested in A Glock 30 and a Ruger Sp101. I told them about the 617 and they accepted it on trade. Even though I will loose some cash this is a replacement for a replacement so I am done with the logistics run around, getting bad replacements for replacements and getting hit with FFL fees every time I receive a replacement (4 replacements so far which is $120 in fees and three of them were sent back with issues). So I traded it in as a down payment. I am going to keep the M327 since it should be OK and the resale for those is close to nothing due to .32 being so expensive but I like the .327 round and as long as this one works it will be a fun gun to play around with. I should be getting the M605 back from Taurus (this is the firearm this thread actually was about) this week. They were going to send it last week but I stopped them since they serviced it for timing. They have been unable to correct the timing issues on two other Taurus revolvers I sent in. Based on this I told them they would have to test fire it(at least three cylinders) prior to sending it back to check their work. They should be doing this anyway but did not on the last two. Once I receive it back it will be for sale. I will list it here. It is stainless and has about 100 rounds through it. I will be looking for $300 so if you're interested shoot me a PM. It will also be listed locally, I am in Atlanta if anyone here is interested and wants to by it local. I am sure Taurus fixed it just fine and if not it has a life time warranty!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
They have mine for the thrid time a week now,guess i best call my shop and tell 'em one maybe coming in. Have not hear squat from Taurus ,they took possission last monday ~~RR~~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
I got my replacement 605 today and they upgraded me to stainless. Everything looks good and tight on this one and timing looks good. B/c gap is good and endshake is nill. I believe they inspected and cleaned this one before sending it to me. But I did it anyways. Hopefully this one shoots as good as it looks! Thanks Taurus!
 
  • Like
Reactions: diesel3

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Quick update(from a few entries ago above), the Sp101's were on back order from now until forever so my FFL offered me something a little different for my Taurus revolver trade. Lets just say it happened as quickly as one can say OK! (Crappy camera caught the lint from my cleaning cloth, gun is NIB) CZ 75c

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I got my replacement 605 today and they upgraded me to stainless. Everything looks good and tight on this one and timing looks good. B/c gap is good and endshake is nill. I believe they inspected and cleaned this one before sending it to me. But I did it anyways. Hopefully this one shoots as good as it looks! Thanks Taurus!
Hoping they get mine right. It was sent in for timing issues. They were going to send it back last week and I put the brakes on. I caught them prior to return shipment and asked them not to return it until they have put at least three cylinders through it. That way if they "stretched" the forcing cone they get the face full of carbon blow back not me LOL. I am hoping they got it right! I would love to have that one functioning correctly. It had very nice action and a great trigger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
I hope they get it right for you Adeste. I believe based on my conversations with the cs rep, that they are overwhelmed right now. Hope that the repair dept gets it right. You are right, the trigger and action on the 605 is sweet.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top