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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I love my little PT22. It has been 100 percent reliable with CCI Mini Mags, well over 1,000 rounds. I clean it every time I shoot it and keep it lubed, usually run about 20 rounds through it every time I go to the range. It is surprisingly accurate at 7 yards. Some people scoff at a little pistol like this for self-defense, but 9 rounds of rapid-fire 22LR in the chest is the equivalent of a round of 12 gauge 00 buckshot, and NObody has ever walked away from getting hit in the chest with one shot of 12 gauge 00 buckshot.

Either my little PT22 or my little Beretta Bobcat live in the pocket of my blue jeans. My little Beretta has proven to be just as reliable as my little PT22. If I have my pants on, one of them is there, and I assure you I never go out without my pants on! I nearly always carry a larger gun as well, and my little 22s are just there for a backup. But one of them is ALways on my nightstand. One of them is ALways in my blue jeans pocket and one of them is ALways on my nightstand. I love these little pistols!
 

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I got my old PT-22 at a guns show as a in box special. In box meaning pieces in a box because someone took it apart and could not put it together again. Thankfully all the pieces were there and it has been flawless ever since.
 

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I like mine too. Only issue is about fifty rounds of anything and it starts failing to feed.
Have to clean the chamber with a wire brush and give it a couple drops of oil and
it's usually good for another fifty.

Fun little gun. Jimku is right, at seven yards it's an accurate little gun.

Someone told me these are "get off me guns". Little .22 it would be tough for a lawyer to
claim you were out LOOKING to hurt someone. Carrying something bigger can look like
you were fully intending to kill whoever it was as you were carrying a .40 S&W.
PT-22 is enough to make someone stop their attack but, can easily be lethal.
 

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I love my little PT22. It has been 100 percent reliable with CCI Mini Mags, well over 1,000 rounds. I clean it every time I shoot it and keep it lubed, usually run about 20 rounds through it every time I go to the range. It is surprisingly accurate at 7 yards. Some people scoff at a little pistol like this for self-defense, but 9 rounds of rapid-fire 22LR in the chest is the equivalent of a round of 12 gauge 00 buckshot, and NObody has ever walked away from getting hit in the chest with one shot of 12 gauge 00 buckshot.


ahh-actually I do believe that 00 Buckshot is 33 caliber not 22, to get to 22 caliber then you would need to go to say---#5 buck shot or so?
but hey if you are happy with the 22 that's all that matters.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
OK, so getting plugged with a 12 gauge loaded with #5 buck shot in the chest at 7 yards isn't something you will walk away from either. There is no sane argument that a litttle PT22 can't be downright lethal. I can shoot mine well enough to easily empty it into someone's HEAD at 7 yards before he could get to me.
 

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I love my little PT22. It has been 100 percent reliable with CCI Mini Mags, well over 1,000 rounds. I clean it every time I shoot it and keep it lubed, usually run about 20 rounds through it every time I go to the range. It is surprisingly accurate at 7 yards. Some people scoff at a little pistol like this for self-defense, but 9 rounds of rapid-fire 22LR in the chest is the equivalent of a round of 12 gauge 00 buckshot, and NObody has ever walked away from getting hit in the chest with one shot of 12 gauge 00 buckshot.

Either my little PT22 or my little Beretta Bobcat live in the pocket of my blue jeans. My little Beretta has proven to be just as reliable as my little PT22. If I have my pants on, one of them is there, and I assure you I never go out without my pants on! I nearly always carry a larger gun as well, and my little 22s are just there for a backup. But one of them is ALways on my nightstand. One of them is ALways in my blue jeans pocket and one of them is ALways on my nightstand. I love these little pistols!
I've had exactly the same experience with mine so far, although I don't have 1000 rounds through it yet. But heck, 1000 rounds of Mini-Mags is only $80.00 or so.

I also agree with your philosophy of use, although I wouldn't aim for the chest. My policy with a mouse gun is to "Shoot 'em in the crotch!" as Clint Smith says. That should give 'em an attitude adjustment.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I've had exactly the same experience with mine so far, although I don't have 1000 rounds through it yet. But heck, 1000 rounds of Mini-Mags is only $80.00 or so.
I also agree with your philosophy of use, although I wouldn't aim for the chest. My policy with a mouse gun is to "Shoot 'em in the crotch!" as Clint Smith says. That should give 'em an attitude adjustment.
I don't know how that would fare in court. It's one thing to defend yourself, and another to give him an involuntary sex change.
 

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Well, with the PT-22, I think my only other credible option (for an immediate cessation of aggressive activities) would be to empty the magazine in the ocular cavity. That would be going for a penetration of the brain, which would likely result in death. A mag dump into the chest would be hoping for a stop due to circulatory collapse due to shutting down the heart - and hostile actions can still take place for many seconds after the heart stops.

A mag dump into the pelvic area would, at least, likely result in the assailant falling to the ground due to shock and loss of control of the lower extremities, giving you the opportunity to escape. But it would likely not result in rapid death for the assailant. And could be presented in court that your intention was to stop the attack and escape - not to inflict fatal injury.

So, if I'm defending against an attack from someone with a firearm, I'm going for the ocular cavity. But against an attacker with a knife or contact weapon, I'll go with Clint's advice.
 

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Well, with the PT-22, I think my only other credible option (for an immediate cessation of aggressive activities) would be to empty the magazine in the ocular cavity. That would be going for a penetration of the brain, which would likely result in death. A mag dump into the chest would be hoping for a stop due to circulatory collapse due to shutting down the heart - and hostile actions can still take place for many seconds after the heart stops.

A mag dump into the pelvic area would, at least, likely result in the assailant falling to the ground due to shock and loss of control of the lower extremities, giving you the opportunity to escape. But it would likely not result in rapid death for the assailant. And could be presented in court that your intention was to stop the attack and escape - not to inflict fatal injury.

So, if I'm defending against an attack from someone with a firearm, I'm going for the ocular cavity. But against an attacker with a knife or contact weapon, I'll go with Clint's advice.
I have the older alloy frame PT-22, and sometimes I have it with me for my line of work. For a defensive gun it's good. And you are 100% correct, unloading it in the chest center mass is effective.. or a few rounds in the head.. lights out.
 

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OK, so getting plugged with a 12 gauge loaded with #5 buck shot in the chest at 7 yards isn't something you will walk away from either. There is no sane argument that a litttle PT22 can't be downright lethal. I can shoot mine well enough to easily empty it into someone's HEAD at 7 yards before he could get to me.
sure it CAN be lethal but then again so can a can opener under the right conditions!
again IF YOU are satisfied that a short barreled 22 will work for your needs then so be it, but IF that is the case then why are you trying to justify carrying it for self defense?
I carry a 9 MM, 38 Super, 10 MM or 45 acp and find no need to justify my choices and I can't hit someone routinely in the eyeball at 7 yards with any of them, specially if they are moving!,.
 
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
sure it CAN be lethal but then again so can a can opener under the right conditions!
again IF YOU are satisfied that a short barreled 22 will work for your needs then so be it, but IF that is the case then why are you trying to justify carrying it for self defense?
I carry a 9 MM, 38 Super, 10 MM or 45 acp and find no need to justify my choices and I can't hit someone routinely in the eyeball at 7 yards with any of them, specially if they are moving!,.
Why are YOU so obsessed with poo-pooing a 22's ability to be lethal?

All things are relative and subjective.
I have no use for any of the calibers you mentioned except the 45ACP.
My 380 Bersa Thunder Plus with its 16 rounds of Underwood Xtreme Defender is superior to any 9mm for self defense because a 9mm will over-penetrate and my 380 won't. 10MM is likewise way over-kill for self-defense, and I have a 41 magnum revolver that is far superior for bears and the like. I have no need for 38-super, and have a 357 revolver. The only time I would strap on my heavy 1911 45ACP is if I knew I was headed for a major street fight ... it is my "battle gun" in case our world really turns to brown smelly stuff in a handbasket.

Nobody said anything about hitting a bad guy in the eyeball. Big difference between head and eyeball. And nobody said anything about always going for a head shot no matter what. But if you can't routinely put your fist shot in a 6 inch circle at 7 yards, even with it swinging left and right, you need more practice ... period ... no matter what caliber you're lobbing at it

And I never said a 22 will "fill my needs". It is never my primary carry, it is there for a backup. And it is a backup that can be lethal.
 

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Why are YOU so obsessed with poo-pooing a 22's ability to be lethal?

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ahh--ummm-well you see!
as how you ask.
because of the number of gunshot victims with a 22 that I have seen and the undesirable quick outcome of them!
I have heard all the great stopping stories about the devastating round but can't remember ever witnessing one myself?
Now I have seen a few that were killed--however that was well after they needed to be stopped.
usually either several minutes after we began to try to treat them , or they were in the back of the ambulance headed to the hospital, or many times after beating the heck out of who shot them or worse.
again I don't feel the need to justify what I carry and honestly everyone should carry what they feel works for them, the only place I carry a 22 is to the range or on a squirrel hunt myself.
and its not just the 22 , the 25 ranks right there on my list as well.
ahh--after your remarks about ballistics with calibers that you seem to list I don't think there is any reason to respond to those comments but hey have a great day anyway.
 
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Why are YOU so obsessed with poo-pooing a 22's ability to be lethal?
You should carry what you want, and what you judge to be the best for you. Nobody's saying differently. I don't think anyone's attempting to "poo-poo" anything.

Yes, .22lr can be lethal. Shot placement can go a long way. But .22lr doesn't have a lot of stopping power. Stopping power and lethality don't go hand in hand. There are members of this forum who work in medicine and law enforcement, and give a lot of first hand knowledge on stopping power vs. lethalness.

I've seen someone beat half to death by a guy with 10 rounds of .22lr in him. He wasn't high, on drugs, drunk, etc. Due to adrenaline and aggression, he likely didn't even feel half of those shots, and none of them did much towards penetration. He was picked up back at his house attempting to remove bullets from himself with needle nosed plyers. Shot placement may have gone a long way in that situation, but we'll never know. I was in law enforcement for only a handful of years and have many more than that one .22lr story.

The 2.33" barrel on a PT-22 (or Beretta Bobcat) isn't going to give any of the performance the back of the ammo box promises. FPS data comes from shooting from a rifle barrel. A hyper velocity round promising 1340FPS is going to be achieving maybe 700-850 FPS out of a PT22. That's delivering roughly 50-70lbs of energy. Depending on your strength, throwing a claw hammer would deliver more damage. Which is why shot placement is so important. A baseball thrown by a high school level pitcher also delivers more damage. We've all seen batters get hit while at bat, how many of them are unable to finish the game?

The other thing to keep in mind with .22lr bullets is that even when they're HP, they're not really going to expand. A .22lr bullet is going to make a thin, non-disruptive, wound channel. A wound like this closes on itself as the bullet passes through, which negates blood loss. You won't get a bleed out with wounds like that, assuming you get adequate penetration.

So yes, a .22lr can be lethal. They just don't have a lot of promise to bring physical stopping power.

Mental stopping power? Sure. A lot of people stop their attack at the sight of a pistol. Doesn't matter if it's a .22lr or a 1911. There are also people that will get winged by a .22lr and run off just from the fear of being shot by anything.

Carry what you want. Enjoy what you carry. We're all different. I will occasionally carry my PT22. My plan is for a headshot if I have to shoot. But for the same weight and near size I can carry a revolver with 38spl +P, or my LCP in .380; both of which carry rounds proven on the street to create damaging wound channels that do not heal themselves, and have actual bleed out stopping power. That's my choice though, and I'm not saying my choice should be yours.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I carry my Bobcat for absolute last-ditch backup purposes. Up close and personal. Like stick it in his ear and pull the trigger. I can't help it if some people are prone to carrying a 22 mouse gun for primary concealed carry.

It flat doesn't matter how many incidences of someone being shot with a 22 and keeps on coming to do harm to the one who shot him. Those were obviously pee-poor shot placement. If you can't shoot any better than that, leave your gun home and carry a baseball bat.

Show me just ONE instance of that with a 22LR slug smack in the middle of his brain. Fact is, you can't because every time that happened the perp dropped dead like a sack of wet manure. And with the gun literally stuck in his ear, you can't possibly miss his brain. Just like the hundreds of cattle that have been dispatched for butchering the same way ... with one shot to the brain. I was raised on a cattle ranch and have personally dispatched probably 50 exactly that way ... sometimes with 22 shorts. So do not try to feed me a crock of B.S. that a 22 can't be reliably effective and lethal. It is a crock and it stinketh.
 

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I keep thinking about getting one of these little semi-autos. I wouldn't use it for SD. Maybe as a back-up. I'm also thinking about a NAA revolver because it would be viable for SD but probably not as much fun.
 

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I carry my Bobcat for absolute last-ditch backup purposes. Up close and personal. Like stick it in his ear and pull the trigger. I can't help it if some people are prone to carrying a 22 mouse gun for primary concealed carry.

It flat doesn't matter how many incidences of someone being shot with a 22 and keeps on coming to do harm to the one who shot him. Those were obviously pee-poor shot placement. If you can't shoot any better than that, leave your gun home and carry a baseball bat.

Show me just ONE instance of that with a 22LR slug smack in the middle of his brain. Fact is, you can't because every time that happened the perp dropped dead like a sack of wet manure. And with the gun literally stuck in his ear, you can't possibly miss his brain. Just like the hundreds of cattle that have been dispatched for butchering the same way ... with one shot to the brain. I was raised on a cattle ranch and have personally dispatched probably 50 exactly that way ... sometimes with 22 shorts. So do not try to feed me a crock of B.S. that a 22 can't be reliably effective and lethal. It is a crock and it stinketh.
Back in my wild and crazy youth I dropped a deer dead in its tracks with my Ruger 10-22 at 75 yards. That's the furthest distance I've ever taken a deer.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
sknhgy;5615525[SIZE=4 said:
]I keep thinking about getting one of these little semi-autos. I wouldn't use it for SD. Maybe as a back-up. I'm also thinking about a NAA revolver because it would be viable for SD but probably not as much fun[/SIZE].
I have a NAA mini-revolver in 22 mag. It is an amazing little gun if you appreciate high quality and fine workmanship.
BUT ... the sights on it are non-existent, only a nubbin that serves as a "front sight" and no rear sight at all. At 7 yards, if I aim for a perp's boiler room I will usually hit him in the crotch. But for really up close and personal last-ditch stick it in ear and pull the trigger stuff it would be lethal.
In contrast, I can easily empty my little PT22 or Beretta Bobcat's 9 rounds into a perp's head at 7 yards in about a second.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Back in my wild and crazy youth I dropped a deer dead in its tracks with my Ruger 10-22 at 75 yards. That's the furthest distance I've ever taken a deer.
Back in my crazy teenage years I watched a friend of mine drop an antelope at a good half mile from the back of a pickup truck with a stock rack on it bouncing over the prairie with a 22 rifle. We stood zero chance of ever catching up with it or getting within shooting range. I don't even know what possessed Bill to fire the gun, but he did, and about a 10-count later the antelope dropped. He hit it ... in the area right next to the butt hole that this forum sensors any mention of ... and it didn't kill it, but it put it down.
 
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