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ahh yep!
as was VEST pockets!
I think this was along about 1930 or so, was given to me by my Mom after her husbands death.
chambered in the powerful 32 S & W, yea not the long either!
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Everyone is so concerned these days about if their carry gun has a powerful enough cartridge but just look at these things that used to be on the market in the old days. They don't look like they could do much damage to anyone much less a Doc Holliday or such. Then they were stoked with black powder which made them even more anemic.
 

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In MY opinion the ONLY reason to opt for a 25 acp, or a 32 auto is because you can not handle recoil of a 380, now days you can get the same size weight pistol in all three caliber, the thing that you give up by going to a 25-32 is a good bit of power and honestly none are exactly power houses to start with.
additionally price of ammo, availability of ammo (especially now) are much harder with the 25/32 and the ability to get a good quality self defense round in the 25/32 is almost non existent, the 380 offers a looooottt more selections.
but at the end of the day you are the one that makes the choice and depends on that choice.
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I hit better with the .32 than any .380 and only hits count.:whistle:

(You can also insert all of the pro-9 Sillymeter comments brought up by its' proponents when the eternal 9mm v..45 argument erupts again.)
 

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Everyone is so concerned these days about if their carry gun has a powerful enough cartridge but just look at these things that used to be on the market in the old days. They don't look like they could do much damage to anyone much less a Doc Holliday or such. Then they were stoked with black powder which made them even more anemic.
The .45 Colt was the most powerful handgun cartridge in the US from 1873 until the .357Mag was introduced in the '30's.

The original .38LC turns out numbers almost identical to .38Special +P.

The original .40S&W 180gr load is identical to the original .38WCF specs.

The buffalo gun cartridges were capable of shooting through American bison in the early 1870's.

The first Creedmoore 1000 yard match was shot between the Americans using buffalo guns and the Irish- who were using muzzle loaders- in the 1870's.

Billy Dixon is accredited with killing an Indian at 7/8 of a mile (although he never claimed he made the shot and the distance is disputed) in 1874.

Black powder rounds aren't anemic, it just creates a lower pressure and velocity. What modern rounds do with speed, they do with mass. Momentum is mass times velocity squared, remember? Up the speed and you can go lighter on the mass. Use a heavier mass and you don't need high speed.

There's very little that smokeless rounds can do that BP rounds can't- it will just take them a little while longer to get there.
 
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Killing isn't the goal for an armed defender, stopping the attack quickly or repelling the attacker is the goal. Reagan didn't ever realize he was shot until he was being driven away. OTOH, James Brady realized right away that he was shot, and had Brady been an attacker, the .22 in that case would've been sufficient. I've personally witnessed an attacker hit multiple times with HP .357 rounds in the torso without being stopped, and at least one 12 gauge slug. What eventually caused the to go down was leg shots, one with a .357 and the other with a 12 gauge slug. I also witnessed the aftermath of a guy shot in the head with a .25 auto, one shot immediate stop. That doesn't mean .357 is an ineffective round most of the time or the .25 auto is an effective round most of the time either. With almost every caliber the location of the hit matters but with small caliber rounds it really matters a lot.
Alright that's an interesting reply.

And, for the record, I would never posit that "killing" is a goal.

But since you presented a lot of evidence that attackers may not be stopped by multiple high-power rounds, it would seem that a kill shot would be desirable in order to "stop or repel" the attack.

Furthermore, gut shots are usually fairly devastating from the way I understand ballistics. Yes, leg shots will put a person on the ground, but they may still be in control of a firearm. Several rounds to the guts would set up a shock wave within the fluid cavities -- it's horrifying to say the least. Not to mention that people may wear armor generally protecting the heart and lungs but not necessarily the guts.
 

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Momentum is mass times velocity squared, remember? Up the speed and you can go lighter on the mass. Use a heavier mass and you don't need high speed.

There's very little that smokeless rounds can do that BP rounds can't- it will just take them a little while longer to get there.
Energy is mass multiplied by the square of the velocity.
Momentum is mass multiplied by velocity.

Above about 2400-2500 fps, energy is a reasonable indicator of how well a round will stop a human being. At those velocities, the shock wave can destroy tissue, so more energy means more tissue destroyed by the shock wave. Below that, it's more about the direct action of the bullet, so the greater penetration power of the heavier rounds gets better results.

There were some anemic rounds in the early days. Steel wasn't as good, and we were learning what it took, projectile wise, to get the job done. As some Army soldiers learned from the Moro tribesmen, much to their dismay. But anyone who thinks using black powder makes a round less effective is (ahem) seeing things rather differently than I do.
 
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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
My only issue with .32 is ammo is outrageously expensive and nearly impossible to find. I am thinking about checking out a new (to me) LGS in Roscoe IL and seeing what they might have available.
 

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There were some anemic rounds in the early days. Steel wasn't as good, and we were learning what it took, projectile wise, to get the job done. As some Army soldiers learned from the Moro tribesmen, much to their dismay. But anyone who thinks using black powder makes a round less effective is (ahem) seeing things rather differently than I do.
The .38LC issues with the Moros was the Army's own fault.

The .38LC was developed with a heeled bullet (the bullet was the same diameter as the outside of the cartridge and only a small portion at the base was reduced to fit inside the cartridge), so almost all of the internal volume was dedicated to powder capacity.

In this format, it was more of a true .38 (.375 or thereabouts) and turned out numbers that were almost on par with the .38 +P. It had a reputation as a respectable man stopper before the Army got a hold of it.

When the Army decided to 'modernize' by going to a mid bore pistol, they wanted the latest ammunition, too, so Colt converted the .38LC to a modern cartridge design. They shrank the bullet diameter to the inside diameter of the case (.357-8) but they only increased the case length by .15" or so. Since most of the original design's bullet was outside the case, that cut powder capacity and the lowered the velocity.

It also ruined the LC's reputation for accuracy since an older gun firing a 'new ammunition' would have a bullet that would rattle down the barrel. The original .375 bore diameter was used until 1914 by Colt. The .38LC was pulled from service in the Army in 1909.
 
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If I had to carry something really really small it would be a NAA 22 magnum.

That's why I bought mine. It shoots really well with Hornady CD ammo. Ammo is a problem, lately, but I don't shoot it much and when I do, I shoot whatever I can get my hands on. I keep a stash of carry ammo rat holed, I've actually carried it as a primary years ago when I was paranoid of the restrictive CCW laws which have since been loosened. At least you can't go to jail for "flashing" anymore.

I don't suppose it's any .357 magnum, but at the time, it was a step up from the .22LR mini revolver I was already carrying. :D
 

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I wonder if that revolver is actually designed for so called "modern" .32 S&W (smokeless powder or BP. A friend of mine inherited a similar looking revolver, a Hopkins & Allen 1901 Forehand Model, and a box of .32 S&W. We test fired it without realizing later that the H&A was supposedly designed for a black powder cartridge, and smokeless powder was more powerful. A steady diet of modern .32 S&W ammo would've damaged it. Fortunitely we didn't have enough ammo available for that to happen. Unlike the revolver above, it didn't have a grip safety and could be fire SA or DA, had an exposed hammer.
its a smokeless powder version, I have checked and actually fired 50 rounds through it.
its the worse shooting (or to shoot pistol that i can recall ever shooting.
the front sight is huge, the rear sight is a groove in the top strap, the trigger has to be 20 pounds and pull is about 4 1/2 inches, the metal safety in the grip back strap eats into your hand and its light weight so even with the mighty 32 S & W its got some recoil.
course it was designed to shoot about 10 fee tat max to the bad guy robbing you.
 
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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Well issue is pretty much solved (at least until wife finds out). I stopped at a new LGS and they had a couple S&W .380 Bodyguard units. Honestly instantly liked it. I pulled out my carry and the guy let me try the .380 on for size and fit. All I can say is "ahhh" perfect for those days I can't or don't want to try and carry the larger weapons. Rack is nice and easy though I am sure it will be a "jumpy" little guy. I am hoping it can become my sometimes carry and mostly my wife's carry. Otherwise I guess I will find her something else. I also looked at the Ruger SR.22 and damn near jumped on that on the spot. Until I saw the little .380
 

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its a smokeless powder version, I have checked and actually fired 50 rounds through it.
its the worse shooting (or to shoot pistol that i can recall ever shooting.
the front sight is huge, the rear sight is a groove in the top strap, the trigger has to be 20 pounds and pull is about 4 1/2 inches, the metal safety in the grip back strap eats into your hand and its light weight so even with the mighty 32 S & W its got some recoil.
course it was designed to shoot about 10 fee tat max to the bad guy robbing you.
I have plenty of replica cap and ball guns. They are for playing on my back yard range or, if you're into it, cowboy action shooting. Sounds like this lemon squeezer is pretty much just a collectable.
 
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I have plenty of replica cap and ball guns. They are for playing on my back yard range or, if you're into it, cowboy action shooting. Sounds like this lemon squeezer is pretty much just a collectable.

yea not into Cowboy shooting!
just don't see very many of them around here, now if you want to discuss Yankee or Kalifornia action shooting then I am your guy!
Cartoon Font Poster Happy Fictional character
 
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Until it shows me unreliable, I wear a PT709. It is super light and i can wear just about anything and not worry about printing.
 

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So, not sure if right forum. Anyway I have and carry both (not at same time) Taurus G2S and G3C. Tending to prefer the 2S because of it's slightly smaller size and weight. But many times given hot weather and light clothing I find even that one to be uncomfortable. In the quest for something small and light I came across and fell for a Walther PP22Q at my LGS. It feels like the answer to a maiden's prayers (though I have not purchased it). The thing is absolutely perfect in so many ways EXCEPT it's a .22LR and THAT is where I give great pause. I am not sure if being comfortable with that strapped to my side is worth the "risk" of .22 over being uncomfortable with the 9's and them tugging my pants down :D
What is general consensus on carrying a .22LR I see so many pros and cons of this on videos and such. Anyone actually have real world experience on that (and perhaps with this weapon)?
NAA 22mag will fit in the pocket. Tilt open version is quicker to reload.
 

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Being in Florida and wearing shorts most of the time I prefer to pocket carry a light weight reliable 9mm pistol. For the past 1.5 years I was carrying a Kahr CM9 which was perfect for me. Approximately 1 month ago I purchased a Kimber Micro 9 which is a very well made firearm and has proven to be very reliable. It’s very easy to rack and is now my EDC pistol. I also have Sig 365 which is also reliable but I prefer the size and weight of the Kimber.
 

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I hit better with the .32 than any .380 and only hits count.:whistle:

(You can also insert all of the pro-9 Sillymeter comments brought up by its' proponents when the eternal 9mm v..45 argument erupts again.)
Same here with the 32 calibers. I have a few and like them a lot only because I can remain on target with them. It is/was one of the most popular calibers in the world at one point. My Bodyguard 380 is nice for pocket carry though but it is a not so fun of a shooter.
 

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Check out the Keltec P32! Sounds like it would meet your needs! I carry one all the time.
Count me in on the P32. Mine gets a lot of summer carry during out north Texas summers.

As to the .22, I say if it works for you go for it.
 
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