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Don't have knockdown power? I'll bet that someone on the receiving end of a handgun, shotgun, or rifle, never voiced that opinion! That sure was a neat video though. Kind of reminds me of a crazy day we spent on the munitions range when I was in the Army (read: we blew lots of stuff up)!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Don't have knockdown power? I'll bet that someone on the receiving end of a handgun, shotgun, or rifle, never voiced that opinion!
Obviously people go down, but I've heard it said that it's more of a muscle reflex than the actual round doing the knocking down. Clearly that drum didn't have any muscle reflexes, and it still had a lot of water in it when it went over. Footpounds are a sumbich. :D
 

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Considering the .300 Blackout is subsonic that was good penetration. I wish he would have fired it with the suppressor on.

It really is a quiet round.

I like the Hickok 45 videos , he is a excellent pistol shot and has a great pistol range.

He does a video and evaluation with the Taurus Model 94 thats worth watching.
 

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There ar far too many variables involved when it comes to shooting people to make blanket statements about "knock down" or "stopping power".

Some people drop like a sack of potatos when grazed, others continue to fight after taking mutiple shots.

A lot depends on the size, physical and mental conditon of the "shootee" and where they are hit.

A number of years back a female LAPD officer was followed home from the gym by a stalker intent on kidnapping, raping and mudering her.

Once in her drive way, the stalker approached with a drawn .357 magnum, she had just enough time to retrieve her issued 9mm Beretta 92 from her car when he fired hiting her directly in the heart.

She managed to return fire killing her attacker. Surprisingly she stayed conscious and survived the shooting. When asked how she did it, she said, "He really pissed me off and I wasn't gonna let him get away with it". She later returned to duty. For the life of me I can't remember her name, but IMSMW she was of Asian decent.

The 1987 Miami FBI shoot out was another good example of how a person can take a lot of lead and keep fighting, injuring and killing "good guys".
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Considering the .300 Blackout is subsonic that was good penetration.
He was firing 125 grain bullets - and they're not subsonic. The 220 grain rounds are.

And I'll just add this as it pertains to that drum. Fifty-five gallons of water weighs 440 pounds, plus the weight of the drum which is probably another thirty pounds or so. I stand by my original statement - it's pretty impressive.
 

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I liked the video although my past experience's with the "black guns" has been poor.


1.1 USA.gif
 

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I think the video clearly shows that even that round on full auto conforms to Newton's Laws. For that water barrel to 'move' away the shooter would have to be moved away from the barrel a matching amount. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Mythbusters has done a couple episodes debunking the notion of "knock down" power for the benefit of folks who didn't take basic physics in school.

I WILL conceed that a bowling ball fired out of a cannon DOES indeed have 'knock-down' power.......albeit a tad difficult to conceal under a raincoat.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think the video clearly shows that even that round on full auto conforms to Newton's Laws. For that water barrel to 'move' away the shooter would have to be moved away from the barrel a matching amount. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Mythbusters has done a couple episodes debunking the notion of "knock down" power for the benefit of folks who didn't take basic physics in school.

I WILL conceed that a bowling ball fired out of a cannon DOES indeed have 'knock-down' power.......albeit a tad difficult to conceal under a raincoat.
So what - did the barrel just fall over of its own accord? I think Hickok just did a good job of debunking mythbusters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
And I'll add one other thing - there are parts that are significantly heavier than the projectile moving in the opposite direction of the projectile. Most notably the bolt and bolt carrier. All the energy does not get transmitted back to the shooter.
 

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Dang, That was impressive. Do I understand correctly that it is a semi-auto that fires very rapidly b/c of the enhancement of the stock?

Knock down? I don't think anyone would be standing after that.

Hickock is awesome!
 

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I've heard for many years that no handheld or shoulder fired weapon truly has knockdown power. This one sure seems to! And notice how low on the target the rounds struck - and it still did it. I'm pretty impressed....

I agree. Very impressive. As to knockdown power, I think that's a relative term. In terms of self defense, though, I wouldn't want to be hit with a round out of any weapon, and I would say that good shot placement will stop a threat, and that's what it's really all about (in an SD situation). Just my two cents.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dang, That was impressive. Do I understand correctly that it is a semi-auto that fires very rapidly b/c of the enhancement of the stock?

Knock down? I don't think anyone would be standing after that.

Hickock is awesome!
It's a bump fire stock. You don't really pull the trigger - you push the weapon forward and the recoil pushes it back into the stock and temporarily takes the pressure off the trigger, allowing the trigger to reset. Then as the forward pressure on the weapon forces it forward again the sequence is repeated. I'm sure it's not as accurate as a bonafide select fire weapon, but it do seem to work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here's another video that goes over the details of the Slidefire stock...

 

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It's a bump fire stock. You don't really pull the trigger - you push the weapon forward and the recoil pushes it back into the stock and temporarily takes the pressure off the trigger, allowing the trigger to reset. Then as the forward pressure on the weapon forces it forward again the sequence is repeated. I'm sure it's not as accurate as a bonafide select fire weapon, but it do seem to work.
Thanks, DBLee - If I eve get an EBR I'll have to check that out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
By the time it fell over, a lot of the water was out of it.
Yeah, but look where the bullets hit it. They were all in the lower part of the drum, so there wasn't much leverage involved. Even if half the water was gone - which I doubt - that's still 220 pounds of water. Sure seemed to be a lot of water left in it when it fell over.
 

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I think the video clearly shows that even that round on full auto conforms to Newton's Laws. For that water barrel to 'move' away the shooter would have to be moved away from the barrel a matching amount. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Mythbusters has done a couple episodes debunking the notion of "knock down" power for the benefit of folks who didn't take basic physics in school.

I WILL conceed that a bowling ball fired out of a cannon DOES indeed have 'knock-down' power.......albeit a tad difficult to conceal under a raincoat.
I gotta agree, e=mc[SUP]2[/SUP]; basic physics FTW.

Regarding dbeardslee's comment, "And I'll add one other thing - there are parts that are significantly heavier than the projectile moving in the opposite direction of the projectile. Most notably the bolt and bolt carrier. All the energy does not get transmitted back to the shooter."

Where does it go then? It doesn't just magically disappear into the aether. ;) Of course it gets transferred to the shooter. The buffer buffers, i.e. it temporarily absorbs some of the recoil and releases it more slowly to the shooter. And while a water-filled 55-gallon drum might not fall over with a full mag dump of 5.56, a goblin surely would. I don't know which 300 AAC version he was shooting, sub- or supersonic, but if it was subsonic, I think the ft/lbs would be about the same for a 30-30. Sometimes people shot with a 30-30 fall down, sometimes they don't. Consistent true one-shot knock-down can be done, but it takes something like a .500 Jeffery, and unless the shooter is properly braced for it, he/she will be knocked down too.

Oh yeah, cool video. I need to get me one of those stocks. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'll tell you where it goes. The foot pounds of energy in the bullet are delivered in an instant. The energy that's going the other way is soaked up more slowly due to the greater mass of the weapon (which also has to be moved), and the recoil spring. Energy over time, as it were. You don't get the instant jolt that you do from the projectile. If you did, nobody would enjoy target shooting.
 
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