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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In my effort to find the best pistol carbine for me I recently purchased a new Sub 2K from Gunprime for $349.00 in the Glock 17 configuration.
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In the box is the rifle, some stickers, 1- pro-mag 17 round magazine, users manual, and some other literature. Out of the box the rifle ran the first 100 rounds perfectly and very accurately. However I got some nice waffle bruising on my right shoulder. In its stock configuration this carbine recoils harshly straight back and causes bruising for many users. The bolt is quite heavy and you feel it each time it smacks into the rear buffer. But no pain no gain right?
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Well heck no! So it was time to look for solutions, enter MCARBO; the aftermarket upgrade champ. I purchased most of their upgrades:
  • Mcarbo all in one pro performance trigger kit, the flat target trigger, recoiless charging handle, bolt tube cover, bolt recoil buffer and the stainless feed ramp.
  • Mounted a Bushnell TRS25 on a 3/4 QD riser to the upper rail
  • Installed a 1/2 X 28 recoil reducing muzzle brake. I used a Glock brake, so I did have to use red lock-tite to get it aligned correctly. The brake also has a locking set screw.
  • Added a small VFG
  • And most important - built a recoil pad. I used an old holster blank that I had already tooled, cut 4 layers of condensed foam to size, sized the holster blank to act as a pocket for the foam strips. Stitched it up tight to the stock, did 4 lock stitches through the stock sling cutout to hold it in place. Did a little dyeing and wala the answer to shoulder bruising.
  • It is best to only break into this carbine one time. So I would suggest you get the pro trigger kit, it includes tools, lube and a proper adhesive for the bolt collar. Include any other internal parts and do it all at once. Pay very close attention to Mcarbo's videos and take your time. I really didn't find any gotcha's , just some difficult finger work.
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Now Mcarbo makes some pretty drastic claims about how the recoiless charging handle and the bolt buffer reduce recoil by XX percent. Here is the reality: The silicone bolt buffer does reduce the harshness of the impact, but not much in reduced recoil. The extra heavy recoiless charging handle slows the bolt down on its way back after firing, and I would guess caused about a 10-15% reduction in recoil. But the two items that made the most difference were the muzzle brake and the recoil pad.
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With all the upgrades the recoil is tamed to be about equal to the Hi Point 995TS carbine. Very shootable. So lets talk about how this carbine operates. I am using an ETS fun stick and the provided pro-mag magazine. Magazine release is positive, but you will have to break your grip to actuate. The under bolt charging handle takes some getting used to, but after 3 mags it becomes second nature. The most un-ergo factor for this carbine is eye alignment to the sight system. Here is how you do it - 1. You have to use ear plugs not muffs. 2.bury the stock into your shoulder 3.crush your face into the bolt to align the rear peep with the front post. I know it sounds uncomfortable, but after the 4th mag I could line up the sights right away. Thank goodness for that soft rubber bolt cover from Mcarbo though. Of course all that is eliminated by adding an optic. I chose not to pay $100 for the rotating midwest ind. optic mount, and opted to use a QD mount for the TRS25 riser, if I chose to fold the stock.
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This rifle from the factory weighs 4lb 4oz's, after all the upgrades it weighs 5lb 4.8oz's. The total length from the front of the muzzle brake to the rear of the recoil pad is 31 3/4" long. The stock trigger pull measured 9lbs , after the Mcarbo upgrade it is now a crisp 5.5 lbs. As you can see from the target it is a tack driver. I started this run at 25 yards, but that was too easy. So I backed off to 50 yards and blew the center out of the target. So far I have run 300 rounds with no problems, it just runs and runs. With the TRS25 it is amazingly fast to bring into action and hit that POA easy peasy.
I have now tested the Hi-Point 995TS (accurate, but clumsy), The Ruger PC9 (accurate but heavy and hard for me to shoot consistently), and this Sub 2K. From my perspective I can stop here, this is the one. I Plan on buying three Glock 17 OEM mags to add to the mix. This is one fun carbine. Thanks for reading my review.
 

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I am a fan of the Sub2K. It's one of my favorite rifles to shoot. Mine is a Gen1 Beretta mag version. I built a custom mount for it and was running a TRS25 in QD riser. I never really had an issue with the sights or the recoil. I initially bought it to replace a takedown AR as a travel gun. It is about to be replaced with a .300 BLK AR pistol.





 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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I know about the tale of woe with your gen1. If I didn't have such weak shoulders, would have kept the Ruger PC9. One thing the Mcarbo upgrades provide is an aluminum trigger guard. It is beefier and really locks in the barrel asm. I don't plan on folding so hoping , hoping , that I don't have a disaster. Especially since I will have to remove all the Mcarbo internals if I have to send it back. :eek:
 
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I have the 40 Sub2000 in Glock. When I took it to the range to shot it, a friend was with me. I let him shoot it but warned him it had a little recoil. Before he shot it he made the statement "Like A Little Bunny Rabbit"? After he fired it he just looked at me. The next day at work he showed me his bruised shoulder.
How is it after the feed ramp was changed? I am impressed with the accuracy also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have the 40 Sub2000 in Glock. When I took it to the range to shot it, a friend was with me. I let him shoot it but warned him it had a little recoil. Before he shot it he made the statement "Like A Little Bunny Rabbit"? After he fired it he just looked at me. The next day at work he showed me his bruised shoulder.
View attachment 428253 How is it after the feed ramp was changed? I am impressed with the accuracy also.
I really don't notice a difference between the plastic feed ramp and the stainless feed ramp. But I only shot 100 rounds through the plastic one. It showed some wear, but nothing unexpected. I assume the steel ramp will last longer and possibly prevent wear on the surrounding plastic parts in the receiver. I never had any feed issues with either.
 

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Does the recoil upgrade affect the charging handle pull force?

For those of you with bruising, do you shoot any bottle neck cartridges or shotguns? The sub2k recoil is sharp but the force is similar to an AR with plastic butt stock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Does the recoil upgrade affect the charging handle pull force?

For those of you with bruising, do you shoot any bottle neck cartridges or shotguns? The sub2k recoil is sharp but the force is similar to an AR with plastic butt stock.
I don't notice a difference in charging handle pull force with the larger and heavier charging handle. Yes I shoot AR15's and 12/20/410 shotguns. I do not agree that a standard AR15 in either full or pistol with no recoil pad recoils as briskly as the Sub2K. I shoot all my shotguns with a recoil pad , so other than shoulder fatigue from shooting my 12ga JM Pro, actual bruising has never happened. The main diff between AR recoil and Sub2K recoil is how the recoil is managed. The AR recoil is dampened by both the action of Gas timing and the bolt carrier, along with the buffer and spring in the stock. While the recoil is similar in push, the impulse from the unbuffered heavy bolt of the Sub2K is more sharp.
 
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