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Kel Tec fans

13967 Views 110 Replies 44 Participants Last post by  Xiphos
I'm a Kel Tec fan as well, and I regularly carry the P3AT (.380 cal) and a P11 9mm on occasion. Kel Tec owners, feel free to post here.
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Several gun forums have become anit-Kel-tec, but for no good reason that can be seen.
Yeah, I've noticed that on thehighroad.org and never really understood WHY. Much of it comes from Kahr guys. Perhaps it's because they paid so much for their Kahr? Kahr's are good guns that get bashed, too, though and they sure don't give 'em away. I can buy 2.5 P11s for the price of a Kahr and, frankly, prefer the P11 to anything Kahr makes.

The long DA trigger of the P11 gets bashed a lot, but that's one of the things I like about the gun. It's very safe to carry in a pocket and the DAO is very revolver like, though the travel is longer. But, it makes cross training with revolvers much easier, takes the same techniques to get hits. If you don't like DAO, you don't have to bash the gun, just don't buy it. The gun isn't a POS just for the trigger, just that YOU don't know how to shoot DA! Why bash the gun for lack of skills?

But, gun owners are all very opinionated. The 1911 guys like that crisp, light trigger and call all else junk. Well, there again, they're bashing DA guns because they don't have the skill set to use them. Hey, DAs work best for me. If you can't shoot DA, get a crutch with a grip safety. LOL! But, don't call the gun junk just because you've never built the skill set to effectively use it. What works for me, won't necessarily work for everyone, that's why there are so many different brands and designs available and I wouldn't have it any other way. Can you imagine a world without revolvers or DA guns, where the only thing you could buy is a 1911? I can't, but some 1911 fanatics would LOVE it. :bang:

Anyhow, I've lost interest in debating on the other boards about guns. I know it's an individual preference and I know what my preferences are. I don't need other's opinions on things, been around long enough to know what I like. One thing I like about Kel Tec is their customer support and lifetime, no questions asked, warranty. If the company backs their products so agressively, you have to figure they're pretty danged decent products. And, in the P3AT at least, there are few alternatives to such a product. The P3AT is the smallest, lightest .380 extant, period, case closed. The NAA and Seecamp are heavier and, perhaps, slightly larger in dimension. The P32 is THE alternative to the Seecamp and such guns and it's available and affordable. The P11 is a proven design and a great alternative to the other more expensive choices. The Rohrbaugh is smaller, but not +P rated and I ain't giving a GRAND for a pocket pistol, sorry, it ain't gonna happen. ;D The Kahrs are over twice the price, the G26 isn't pocket sized. The Skyy, well, I haven't decided on that one. I've heard stories, but it seems the only direct competition IMHO to the P11. The P11 offers 13 rounds with a dry weight of 14 ounces, accurate, reliable, and all fits in a pocket. What's not to like? I can bust 6" plates all day long at 25 yards off hand with mine, plenty of accuracy. And, loaded with +Ps, you have a 13 shot firearm that rivals the snubby .357 magnum in power (115 grain +P chronographs 1260 fps out of my gun for 410 ft lbs) and is much, much easier to shoot than a 12 ounce .357 with 2" barrel. Most of the ballistics I've seen on the 2" guns in .357 put energies shy of 400 ft lbs, around 380, actually LESS than the +P 9 from the 3" tube of the KT and in a gun that's physically bigger. Out of a 2" gun, the .357 is mostly flash/bang, not a good thing. I'm getting a 2 1/4" SP101 (hopefully tomorrow) and am looking foward to testing my white hot handloads in it over the chrony. I might be able to get a little more with my handloads from the .357 and with the slightly longer tube. I know I get a little over 500 ft lbs out of the 3" Taurus, so it's a close race for ballistics between a 2" .357 and the +Ps I shoot in my P11. Considering how easy the gun is to shoot and how much easier it is on eyes and ears, I think the little 9 makes better sense as a self defense gun that could be used indoors and at night.

I think the one alternative that would fit for me to the P11 is the little Taurus PT111, very similar gun with a similar price. It's a little bigger and less of a pocket gun. It came out just after I'd bought my P11 when I got my CCW permit or I'd have considered it. The P11 has served me well for a decade, though, and I like it a lot.

Heck, you wanna see bashing? Bring up Glock on one of those boards! Bwaaaa, ha, ha! How many times have I read (it doesn't fit my hand) as if they're going to try to pick it up and it's going to fall out because they can't get a grip on it or something. Hey, 1911s don't fit MY hand, but I can still shoot 'em 'cause I can adapt! Heck, fire a broom handle some time! I don't care what the grip shape is, I adapt to it, I can shoot it. I've fired a lot of Glocks and I'm as fast and accurate with a Glock as I am with a 1911, more so really because I ain't gotta remember that safety. I don't train with 1911s because I shoot revolvers and the manual of arms is quite different. I have owned and fired 1911s in competition and done quite well with 'em, just prefer DA for carry and serious social work, especially since I mostly carry in a pocket and I like to carry revolvers. That's my personal thing, yet, I get chastised on other sites saying I can carry a "real" gun, just takes dedication. :bang: Sheesh, people, I have out shot a lot of folks and their 1911s with DA guns! I've won shoots with my Ruger P90 beating up on all the Glocks and 1911s all! It ain't the gun, it's the man behind it that counts. Too much reliance on hardware is NOT a good thing!

Sorry for the rant, but it touches a nerve.
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Why worry about the rant NativeTexan? There are times points like this need to be said and made. You did that. This is true for all brands, makes, and models produced.

While people can have strong leanings and likes towards particular brands, individuals need to still have a receptive mind that other brands can fill the bill. That was just proven. Most folks here do think that way.

Mind set is fine, as long as it is not set in stone or concrete forever. :)
NT: I feel the same way you do....when I first started shooting iDPA,I used a PT99.....one guy always had something to say about the fact that is was "just a Taurus"meanwhile I consistantly beat his times w/ his Kimber....I started saying"notbad for a fat guy w/ a cheap gun,huh?"
I've seen guys w/ Llamas,Rossi's and just about every other Cheaper priced gun shoot just as well or better than guys w/ $1000 guns.If a gun is accurate and reliable,who cares about the "label"on the gun.Now if you can afford a $1000 gun and it shoots good for you,go for it..but don't judge others until you see them shoot their "cheap" gun.
Nothing's better than seeing someone w/ an old beat up cheapy beat the crap out of somebody w/ the uber-tactical-high speed-low drag-spec. op.-high cap-super gun.......of course it does come a free hat. ::)
Heck, I even shot the P11 at one IDPA shoot. LOL I shot for several years with a club about 90 miles from me, closest IDPA club to me. I usually used my Rugers, seemed to shoot best with my P90. I was a slow expert by the time I stopped going over there, but the time I shot the P11, I shot fast sharpshooter times. That ain't that bad considering the sight radius of the thing. It's quite accurate for its size, though. I always figured if I could do well in competition with it, I'd gain confidence in a gun when the stakes were a lot higher. I am absolutely one with that Ruger P90 I've shot it so much in competition. It's my favorite, and even though it's a little thick and prints under a light T shirt, if I'm going to Houston or some other septic tank of human waste, I'll wear a loose shirt and the P90 as a primary in my Sparks summer special. It's worth the hassle. I'll carry the P11 in a pocket when I do that for back up.

Yep, it's all about YOU and your abilities with the gun, not the price tag or the brand name on the slide/barrel. If the gun is 100 percent reliable and accurate, why would a Les Bauer custom $5K gun be any more effective, especially if, like me, you don't really like 1911s?????
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One of our guys shoots the poly-.45 Ruger(p95 maybe)he also carries it in a IWB holster made by Tauris leather....he conceals it well.I've never seen that gun have ANY kind of malfunction.If I hadn't found the PT945,I would've ended up getting a Ruger .45...they're another one that guys seem to have an attitude with.....but I have almost never heard of anyone having issues w/ Rugers.I've owned a GP100 and an SP101,and am sorry I traded them away.
I was shooting w/ a guy who had a Les Baer custom .45 one time.He tried my GP100 and looked at his target...he said"What'd you pay for this?"I said "about $250 used."He looked at his Baer and said quietly"I must be a moron..."Yeah my GP out grouped his Baer.....I just smiled.
Longtime P-11 owner...8.5 spring, trigger shoe, Hogue Jr, White's trigger stop, belt clip. Still carry it as either BUG or when clothing dictates something a little smaller/lighter than my PT145. Have thought about a P3AT but so far I get by fine with a front pocket holster, Thunderwear or the belt clip and prefer 9mm (125gr Corbon +P JHP) over .380.
The P11 is usually my primary carry gun, although I bought the P3AT and now find myself carrying that more than the P11. Sometimes I have both, but the P3AT can't be beat for light clothing days. As for carry ammo, the Rem Golden Saber JHP in .380 is an excellent round, and works well in the P3AT. I'll never give up the P11, though. I was going to start carrying my PT145, but I like the familar feel of the P11. The .45 will probably get more use in the winter.
The P11 is a natural pointer to me. I really, really like it. I've got a hogue handall grip sleeve on it and it really comes out of the pocket fast and perfectly indexed with that finger grooved sleeve. I can't shoot my M85UL any faster and it's not as powerful as +P 9mm nor does it have 11 rounds on tap. The P11 is my favorite carry, pocket OR IWB really. But, I usually pocket the gun.
I've got a little 3AT that I like a lot. Did a little fluff & buff and it works like a champ. I carry it when it's not practical to carry anything larger. Who cares if it's a cheap gun? If it breaks, I'll buy another one while it's being fixed. Lord knows they're cheap enough.
And if it does break, Kel Tec will fix it. You simply can't wear them out. Put 10,000 rounds through it, send it in and they'll replace all the worn parts. I even heard of one that was severely damaged from use of MagSafe ammo. (Kel Tec now warns against this) The frame, slide and other parts were damaged, from what might have been bullet setback. Kel Tec basically rebuilt the entire pistol with the same serial number and sent it back to the owner. Now thats great customer service.
I had a chance to fondle a PF-9 today. It's real slim but the grip is long front to back. I'm sure I could deal with it but not sure it I'd want to. I do know that the laser they had attached didn't make me want to get the gun at all. But that's me.

The PF-9 is an interesting piece, but I'm not sure it was a needed product for Kel Tec. Their attempt to build a smaller, lighter more concealable 9mm falls short in my opinion. While it has become a reliable product, according to recent reports, it is not that much smaller than the old standby, P-11, and holds fewer rounds. I don't think it will ever be as good a seller as the P-11 or the P3AT. Kel Tec would have been better off developing a polymer .45, like the Taurus PT 145. Or maybe a tiny pocket .22 pistol.......?
I think if they'd made the grip more like whats on the Khar's it'd have been fine. But the grip just doesn't do much for me. I'd either go with their 32/380 or spend the extra money on a PM9. Now, if they'd work up a 2nd Gen and shorten the grip while still keeping the current mag it might do better. The rest of the gun seemed like it would work well as a pocket auto, just that grip...

I'd rather have seen something like a 32NAA on their small polymer frame. Don't know if it would have sold enough to make a good profit but its better than a "me too" attempt.

Just had another off the wall idea. Offer a long slide version of the P32 and the P3AT, maybe add 2 inches. With the extended mag's it'd be almost like a real gun! ;D

My new PF-9 with some goodies.
200 rounds 1st time out no problems. FMJ's and H.P.'s
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The nice thing about the P3AT is it can be carried virtually everywhere. This gun can be easily concealed with just about any style of clothing. THis is probably the number one conceal carry pistol by number of sales. I don't think you can find this much firepower in a smaller package.
Got my P3 about a month ago. Ran 75 rnds of S&B FMJ thru it without a hitch. All shots dead-on from about 10-20ft out point shooting. Cleaned it, loaded it up, and it's been my main carry piece since. You can't beat it for Florida CCW. My other guns are so neglected. I can hear them talking to me at night.......... But that's another story.
Count me in as a KT fan. My all-the-time carry is a little P32 with a home-rolled custom leather wallet holster. Just over $200 for the gun and under $10 for the materials for the holster. My KT has well over 3000 rounds thru it (I stopped counting long ago), and just simply goes bang every time. Kept in either the back or front pocket (depending on the pants), no one has a clue, and if I walk into a gun-free zone (daycare, etc), it can be removed without contortions and stored safely - it looks like I'm putting a wallet away.

I've had lots of discussions about the .32 ACP vs the .380 and having had both guns (P32 and P3AT), I sold the 3AT to make room for my PT1911. For me, I could get back on target faster, and shoot better when using rapid fire and double-taps for practical practice with the .32 than with the .380. I figured 8 in COM (if necessary) is a whole lot better than struggling to put 2-3 in COM in the same time frame.

As was said before - it's preference and practice that makes the difference.

just my .02
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The .32ACP has been working out for a lot of people. One magazine article last year told of the many military and police individuals who carried a .32ACP pistol when jogging or in severe heat and humidity and why they trusted the .32ACP.

Kel-Tecs and other small pistols were describes as the choice by these trained professionals, who had all come under fire at one time or other in combat on the job, but in civilian attire would carry and trust a .32 caliber.

The newer generation of JHPs make FMJ obsolete for the most part. Weght retention and penetration are the hallmarks of many of the newer JHPs.
I'm eventually going to try some JHP's, but until I go thru a break-in period of about 200 rnds, and get a chance to fool around the the JHP's to see what feeds and what doesn't, I'm going to err on the side of reliability.
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