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Discussion Starter #23
I used the search feature on their site.

That's probably it, but it doesn't seem to come to the conclusion presented.

The Icahn School only had a supporting role in data analysis. Granted that's not really material. Reading the study it just seems to be about seeing how the virus spreads under the conditions Marine Corps recruits encounter. Not about whether or not lockdowns are effective.

"Our study showed that in a group of predominantly young male military recruits, approximately 2% became positive for SARS-CoV-2, as determined by qPCR assay, during a 2-week, strictly enforced quarantine. Multiple, independent virus strain transmission clusters were identified. Shared rooms and shared platoon membership were risk factors for transmission. ...."

Skip on down to results. I can't get "Lockdowns have no effect" out of anything.
OK. I'll try to translate. Part of all specialty residencies is something called "Journal Club" and that is where we learn to interpret clinical research articles - including the statistics parts of the articles. Some articles' findings are straightforward - others, like this one, require a lot of reading between the lines. The statistically significant findings were that use of masks and social distancing has NO effect on transmission. You are correct that the language "lockdowns have no effect" is not found. The COMBINED FINDINGS use of masks and social distancing was extrapolated to lockdowns. NEITHER clinical parameter on its own could be extrapolated - it took the combined effect of both to be clinically statistically significant when extrapolated.
And, while I'm not a fan of this particular article, the bigwigs at the top of clinical study sites found this study to have been of particularly good design with undisputed agreements on the outcomes results.
 

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Lockdowns do not help, neither do masks.

Everything you need to know about Covid-19 you learned in Kindergarten.

Wash you hands, cover your mouth when you cough,
So masks don't help, but covering your mouth when you cough does?

I have to ask; where, exactly, are you wearing your mask?
 
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So masks don't help, but covering your mouth when you cough does?

I have to ask; where, exactly, are you wearing your mask?
Masks do not work because the virus is .1 microns in size and even a N95 mask only stops 95% of particles down to .3 microns in size. Viruses are expelled from their host individually and in clusters as well as being entangled in mucous. As asymptomatic people are not full of snot and mucous, if they are actually infectious, and there have been no peer reviewed studies to indicate that they are but it is assumed, then they will be dry shedding and the virus will be sailing right through cloth masks as well as 5% getting through the N95. Most people do not have access to real N95 masks at this time.

One of my duties in the Air Force was setting up containment facilities in response to possible NBC attacks. We feared a viral attack more than anything because there was not much that could be done for those that did not have full biohazard suits.

In fact, in one training lecture, we asked if we should give masks to civilians that may come to our location. They told us not to worry about it and to tell them to pull their shirt up over their face. We asked what that would do. The instructor stated that it would do nothing but would put them at ease so they did not bum rush you guys, take your firearms and shoot you with them.
 

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We need to unmask this mask dilemma.
Should I wear one?
Should I not wear one?
Should I hide in fear in my own home?
Should my house wear a mask?
I'll guarantee you one thing, there will be more suicides and family violence this
holiday season than they can count. Politicians are effectively driving the average citizen crazy
with their tyrannical arbitrary control freak data driven edicts. Data driven by the news
media, politicians and the next doctor that wants face time on tv.
But that's OK. All suicides will be tested for covid. And you know what that means.
 

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We need to unmask this mask dilemma.
Should I wear one?
Should I not wear one?
Should I hide in fear in my own home?
Should my house wear a mask?
I'll guarantee you one thing, there will be more suicides and family violence this
holiday season than they can count. Politicians are effectively driving the average citizen crazy
with their tyrannical arbitrary control freak data driven edicts. Data driven by the news
media, politicians and the next doctor that wants face time on tv.
But that's OK. All suicides will be tested for covid. And you know what that means.
Yup, that suicide as well as coughing,sneezing, diarrhea, flatulence, crying, not coughing, not sneezing, headaches, muscle aches, and ingrown toenails are all symptoms!
We are all gonna die!😂
 

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Masks do not work because the virus is .1 microns in size and even a N95 mask only stops 95% of particles down to .3 microns in size. Viruses are expelled from their host individually and in clusters as well as being entangled in mucous.
Well, unless "covering your mouth when you cough" means you keep plastic wrap on hand, your logic would say that covering your mouth when you cough is utterly useless. Neither my hand nor my elbow give a <0.1 micron seal over my mouth and nose.

And while I'm sure some viruses are expelled individually, I'd bet that far, far more are expelled in clusters and in mucous. So the pore size argument doesn't convince me at all. To me, and I understand the import of those two words, your two statements clearly contradict themselves.

They also contradict the opinions of the public health officials I know, some of which have deep-seated reasons to disagree with the officials if they saw fit.
 

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There are consequences to losing an election and over the next four years we will see just how dire those consequences will be. If Komrade Madam President Harris says lockdown, then facts be damned lockdown it will be.
Chairwoman Harris could not order it, only suggest and/or recommend it, with the exception of federal buildings and/or employees.

"..Governors have "broad discretion" to restrict and police movement within states, such as the 43 states with some version of a stay-at-home order have done, Shapiro noted. But while the president could recommend that all citizens stay at home, or recommend that all governors issue such an order, the president's own authority to issue such an enforceable directive isn't there..".

 
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Well, unless "covering your mouth when you cough" means you keep plastic wrap on hand, your logic would say that covering your mouth when you cough is utterly useless. Neither my hand nor my elbow give a <0.1 micron seal over my mouth and nose.

And while I'm sure some viruses are expelled individually, I'd bet that far, far more are expelled in clusters and in mucous. So the pore size argument doesn't convince me at all. To me, and I understand the import of those two words, your two statements clearly contradict themselves.

They also contradict the opinions of the public health officials I know, some of which have deep-seated reasons to disagree with the officials if they saw fit.
I tell you what, I've got some asbesto's I need help removing from my home. Would you be willing to put on your cloth mask and come on over and give me a hand?

BTW, asbestos is larger than a virus. I bet you would not choose a cloth or surgical mask to wear to remove it.

Our government has asked us to deny the very basic size problem with the holes in the masks verses the size of the virus, all because everyone jumped on the mask bandwagon. This was after the Expert Extraordinaire Fauci actually quoted the CDC concerning the efficacy of wearing masks against a virus. If you remember, he was against them before he was for them. After the CDC scrubbed their website of data concerning masks that had been on there for many years, he changed his tune.

Try this, next time you need to sneeze, put your hand in front of your mouth, not touching, and sneeze. Bet you get a wet hand. If there was any virus present, it has sailed right on through!

Our government is using masks as a way to divert attention from what they are doing and to keep us fighting among ourselves. Mask vs No Mask. This was quite obvious when they sold everyone on the slogan, "The mask is not to protect you, it is to protect me." This made anyone that did not wish to wear one and instant jerk that did not care about others. Nice. It is par for the course with how our political system works for today.

But, I guess if it saves just one life. (Um, wait, I've heard that before in the Gun Control Narrative...)
 

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I tell you what, I've got some asbesto's I need help removing from my home.
Better argument would be to say, "Would you be willing to stand in an enclosed room with cyanide gas released into said room wearing only a surgical mask?" The cyanide particles are way larger than said virus. Nobody in their right mind would take you up on said offer. :cool:
 

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All I know is there's not a hospital in the world you could walk into right now and not see the entire staff from doctors to janitors masked up, and that should tell you something other than "massive conspiracy" and "attack on my personal rights". It's unbelievable how many guys want to argue about micron size and asbestos and how at the start of this whole thing Fauci and the CDC said... We know there is no guarantee that a piece of cloth covering your nose and mouth is going to completely prevent the spread of this virus, but we also know that it does reduce the spread, and reduction is the key to getting this virus under control. We're dealing with numbers in the millions, so even a small percentage is extremely significant, as should have been witnessed and fully realized with the amount of deaths in both this country and the world, yet that's something else we seem determined to argue at length over. Flat Earthers might have greater reasoning skills at this point than anyone saying large scale mask wearing is useless.
 

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Actually they do. Lockdowns do reduce cases.

Our COVID-19 cases are increasing. The Philippines with a less sophisticated healthcare system applied strict lockdowns in their nation. Their case numbers have plateaued. This is a lesson for the USA and all of the states.



 

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Actually they do. Lockdowns do reduce cases.

Our COVID-19 cases are increasing. The Philippines with a less sophisticated healthcare system applied strict lockdowns in their nation. Their case numbers have plateaued. This is a lesson for the USA and all of the states.



The problem with that shown in other nations is that it doesn't actually do anything but delay another peak. It is a virus, it isn't going away and as soon ad the lockdowns are over the number of cases surges. It has been show everywhere, Italy, Spain, Germany, and various American states such as NJ, and PA.
That will happen their as well, meanwhile the economy will be destroyed.
 

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Try this, next time you need to sneeze, put your hand in front of your mouth, not touching, and sneeze. Bet you get a wet hand. If there was any virus present, it has sailed right on through!
I have allergies, and I've been wearing a mask for months, so I've been doing your experiment on a regular basis. You'd lose your bet.
 
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